KNG2-P800 (Rx Only Question)

[PVPD730]

I'm trying to program a KNG2-P800 for receive only/no affiliate trunking. When I go into the RES and attempt to add a new trunked system, it automatically adds the system as Rx only. It isn't giving me the opportunity to change the Unit ID from the default of 1 to something else. I've heard of other people having their radio stunned in Rx only with a Unit ID of 1 in older firmware versions. Adding a different radio ID is supposed to be a prevention mechanism to stop the radio from being stunned. Any ideas on how to rectify this in the version 5.5.9 software?

 

[DanRollman]

I'm trying to program a KNG2-P800 for receive only/no affiliate trunking. When I go into the RES and attempt to add a new trunked system, it automatically adds the system as Rx only. It isn't giving me the opportunity to change the Unit ID from the default of 1 to something else. I've heard of other people having their radio stunned in Rx only with a Unit ID of 1 in older firmware versions. Adding a different radio ID is supposed to be a prevention mechanism to stop the radio from being stunned. Any ideas on how to rectify this in the version 5.5.9 software?

I will let others on here who have actually done it speak more definitively, but I think that requires getting a 'dummy system key' from BKRadio, which allows the software to change the Unit ID without allowing affiliation or any other functions. I personally have never bothered, and have used my radios to monitor many dozens of systems across the country without ever experiencing any attempt at a stun.

I think there was only one system in particular where there was a report of the administrator stunning UID 1, but I can't recall what it was.

 

[PVPD730]

I will let others on here who have actually done it speak more definitively, but I think that requires getting a 'dummy system key' from BKRadio, which allows the software to change the Unit ID without allowing affiliation or any other functions. I personally have never bothered, and have used my radios to monitor many dozens of systems across the country without ever experiencing any attempt at a stun.

Thanks for that information.

I think there was only one system in particular where there was a report of the administrator stunning UID 1, but I can't recall what it was.

Strange. I wonder if that person forgot to check the "Rx Only" box before programming the radio? If they did check "Rx Only" it shouldn't have affiliated at all.

 

[DanRollman]

Strange. I wonder if that person forgot to check the "Rx Only" box before programming the radio. If they did check "Rx Only" it shouldn't have affiliated at all.

There is no way they could have affiliated without a system key. The KNG is rock solid in this regard. The issue, as I understand it, is that an administrator can stun UID 1 and the KNG will hear the message on the control channel and allow itself to be stunned even though it wasn't affiliated (and can't affiliate). It still hears and follows the instruction to stun if it is UID 1, which it is. At least that's the way I heard it!

 

[gtaman]

You need to load the dummy 1-1 system key. If you updated your RES you need to re load it. When it’s loaded it will let you build the SOME of the system before changing it to RX only.

 

[DanRollman]

You need to load the dummy 1-1 system key.

How do you get that key?

 

[gtaman]

How do you get that key?

BK sent it to me. I can share if needed. Send me a pm with your email.

 

[PVPD730]

Now that the Unit ID issue has been resolved, another issue has popped up. I'm trying to program a statewide system and I can't get radio traffic from certain departments and sites when the system is programmed as Wide Area. For example, one City's PD/FD uses Site 1-4, another uses site 1-6, and so on. My home site programmed within the RES is 1-4. Anytime I attempt to listen to traffic on 1-6, I get nothing. Both sites are within 20-25 miles of each other. If I program them as single sites with the same system ID, then I get the traffic. The signal strength from the farthest site is weak and I routinely get an "out of range message".

I don't have this problem with my Motorola and other commercial gear. I'm beginning to wonder if this is an antenna issue vs a programming issue. Can anyone offer some thoughts, tips, or tricks?

Edit: Before anyone asks, yes I did set up my preferred sites list before checking the "RX only" box.

 

[IAmSixNine]

You do not have the ability to scan between sites. You pick one or the other or let the radio pick based on receive signal strength.
Sadly with my APX i monitor a system with cities on their own layer. So 1-2, 1-4, 1-7, 2-1. I have each city programmed in my apx and my KNG2 with each site as its own system. So when scanning on my APX its scanning the TG on different systems thanks to system scan options.
I have not found an option for it to scan across systems, the KNG2 that is.
So i tend to have my SDS100 and APX as more of a scanner and the KNG2 as my primary hold on a TG when stuff happens.

 

[PVPD730]

You do not have the ability to scan between sites. You pick one or the other or let the radio pick based on receive signal strength.

Yep, I've quickly found that out while learning this radio.

Sadly with my APX i monitor a system with cities on their own layer. So 1-2, 1-4, 1-7, 2-1. I have each city programmed in my apx and my KNG2 with each site as its own system. So when scanning on my APX its scanning the TG on different systems thanks to system scan options.
I have not found an option for it to scan across systems, the KNG2 that is.

That's weird. On my XTS and both of my Unication devices, I have everything programmed in as one wide area system. All do fine passing audio from the different talkgroups on separate sites. With this KNG2-P800, I had no other choice but to program each site as it's own separate system. When I'm near my home site, there's no problem with reception. Completely different story with the other sites. Those other sites are within 20-25 miles of each other and I almost get a full slam signal with the Motorola antennas. With this BK, I routinely get "out of range" bonks, even with a site that's no more than 10 miles away from my home site. I wish they had some sort of long range antenna besides the stock one that came with the radio. It's a small annoyance, but overall I really like the radio.

 

[IAmSixNine]

You mention one cities PD/FD uses 1-4 while another uses 1-6. Is this because they are located in those respective sites locations or does the system force them to use those sites.
For my example the agencies do not roam onto other sites. They are forced to stay on the respective sites. The system is layered intentionally that way. So one city will always stay on 1-2, another will stay on 1-4 and another on 1-7 and another on 2-1. So if i want audio to pass i have to make sure that the agency i want to monitor is on the correct site.

But not all systems are like this. Some maybe system wide and it will depend on which site the user talk group affiliates with.

So im sure you know how all that works since your tinkering with commercial gear.
The G4 is closer in operation to the KNG2 as both will hold on one site and dont scan across sites. (again my apx is programmed in to scan across systems and i programmed in those cities having their respective sites as its own system to make sure the sites and talk groups match)
So are both agencies affiliating with site 1-4? or because of the distance the ones on 1-6 are only affiliating with one?

 

[PVPD730]

You mention one cities PD/FD uses 1-4 while another uses 1-6. Is this because they are located in those respective sites locations or does the system force them to use those sites.

1-4 is licensed to one county while 1-6 is licensed to another (all use the same system ID, of course). The Police and Fire Departments on 1-4 are forced to use that site only. Same goes for the agencies on Site 1-6.

For my example the agencies do not roam onto other sites. They are forced to stay on the respective sites. The system is layered intentionally that way. So one city will always stay on 1-2, another will stay on 1-4 and another on 1-7 and another on 2-1. So if i want audio to pass i have to make sure that the agency i want to monitor is on the correct site.

That's exactly how the system I monitor is set up. They have interop channels they can roam on, but day to day ops are forced to remain on their respective sites.

So are both agencies affiliating with site 1-4? or because of the distance the ones on 1-6 are only affiliating with one?

No. My home PD/FD only affiliates on my home site, 1-4. The other PD/FD only affiliates on 1-6. I get full signal while monitoring 1-4. Site 1-6 is reasonably close (approximately 12 miles away). On that one, I get full signal on my Motorola and Unication devices, no problem. With the KNG, I receive traffic, but routinely get brief out of range "bonks". Same thing happens with Site 1-7 (16 miles away). Good to go on the other devices, but the KNG gives an almost constant out of range message.

There are a total of 11 sites on the system. 7 are simulcast, 4 aren't. 1-4, 1-6, 1-7, 1-8 are what I have programmed so far.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Interesting. I never set up a preferred site on mine. I always enable site lock and when i switch zones i wait for it to lock and then make sure im on the site i want to monitor. As far as sensitivity goes sometimes i think its not quite as sensitive as my apx or G4 but i also think sometimes the G4 shows higher signal bars but reception still isnt that great. So not sure if i go by that.
You mention "That's weird. On my XTS and both of my Unication devices, I have everything programmed in as one wide area system. All do fine passing audio from the different talkgroups on separate sites. "
So not sure how thats possible as the G4 can only lock onto 1 site at a time, like the KNG does. So how is the G4 passing audio from 2 sites (1-4 and 1-6) if both agencies are tied to their respective sites. Based on the G4 passing audio it makes me think that you are tied to 1 site and its passing audio from that 1 site and one of those agencies thats supposed to be using the other is affiliating with that one.
So your monitoring 1-4 and traffic from 1-6 is coming over on 1-4. If the G4 is passing audio from an agency that is on 1-6 but you know for sure your on 1-4 that is the only explanation.

 

[PVPD730]

Interesting. I never set up a preferred site on mine. I always enable site lock and when i switch zones i wait for it to lock and then make sure im on the site i want to monitor. As far as sensitivity goes sometimes i think its not quite as sensitive as my apx or G4 but i also think sometimes the G4 shows higher signal bars but reception still isnt that great. So not sure if i go by that.

The preferred sites setting seems useless if you program a system as wide area. The radio always defaults back to the site with the strongest reception. That feature may be better suited for authorized subscribers who actually affiliate with the system. As far as what you mentioned about the sensitivity, that seems accurate. I thought it could be an antenna issue, though. Motorola antennas (especially the 7/800MHz "whip") are far more superior and seem to perform better. I use those on my Unication G4 and G5 devices. 98% of the time, I receive decent reception from the distant sites mentioned earlier. Once in a blue moon, I get an Out of Range message, but it's not an every day occurrence.

You mention "That's weird. On my XTS and both of my Unication devices, I have everything programmed in as one wide area system. All do fine passing audio from the different talkgroups on separate sites. "
So not sure how thats possible as the G4 can only lock onto 1 site at a time, like the KNG does. So how is the G4 passing audio from 2 sites (1-4 and 1-6) if both agencies are tied to their respective sites. Based on the G4 passing audio it makes me think that you are tied to 1 site and its passing audio from that 1 site and one of those agencies thats supposed to be using the other is affiliating with that one.
So your monitoring 1-4 and traffic from 1-6 is coming over on 1-4. If the G4 is passing audio from an agency that is on 1-6 but you know for sure your on 1-4 that is the only explanation.

Prior to programming the Unication devices, one of their reps made a very thorough tutorial video (back in 2017) which addressed programming of large wide-area trunked systems. Using those instructions, I programmed the pagers and they've always passed audio from the correct sites. I'm able to verify this by watching the "RFSS/Site" display at the bottom of the screen. 1-4 agencies are coming over Site 1-4, as they should be. Same goes for the 1-6 agencies. None of agencies are affiliating with the wrong sites.