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KTI-3

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jcefd10

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Preston, GA
Hey guys.
This is my first post here. I actually registered here just to post in this thread.

I am helping the locak radio shop set up a new repeater system that is replacing the old analog stuff we had. THere are 2 sites we are trying to link with the KTI-3 and having absolutely ZERO luck.
Site 1 has a 25/4 dsl circuit in place, and also a Sonicwall firewall b/c the deputies use it to access various things housed on the local server.

Site 2 has a 3/768 dsl used ONLY for this site linking. I have static IP addresses on both ends from the ISP (thats who I work full time for) and port forwarding activated.

My issue is that I have no idea where to enter what IP address in the programming software.
Can anyone help me? I've scoured the internet for help and found nothing. Kenwood tells us both repeaters/kti-3's have to be on the same network (same subnet and gateway) and as of right now, that ain't happening unless they have a vpn created btw the 2 sites. ANY help at all is greatly appreciated.
 
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shmget

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Enfield, CT
I'm a ham radio operator that has played extensively with NXDN. My understanding in the commercial radio world is that what Kenwood told you is correct, you need to run a VPN between the sites if they are not on the same physical network.
 

jcefd10

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I got the 2 sites.talking to one another. Now, supposedly this is supposed to link the 2 repeaters together ? For instance, 911 dispatch monitors site 1 primarily. So if an officer manually selects site 2, and transmits it is supposed to also key up site 1 so that 911 Ican hear, even if the officers radio is on site 2, correct?

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jcefd10

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I thought I replied to your post, but I don't see it. Anyhow, ingot both sites linked with the kti-3. I'm sure I'm missing something innrhe programming. This is the way the sheriff was told it would function. We have site 1, and site 2. Site 1 being the primary site 911 dispatch monitors. So, the deputies have 2 different channels programmed in their radios, site 1 and site 2. Right now, they have to manually switch between the 2, and somehow inform dispatch that they will be using site 2 so that they may change channels also.

Supposedly, this kti-3 network is supposed to remedy that. For instance, 911 stays on channel 1, but the deputy is on site 2's channel and transmits. He should still come across on site 1's channel even though he is on the channel for site 2, correct? Eliminating the hassle and confusion of everyone'l having to swap back and forth.
Is that done in the programming? They are using the newer mobile and portables.

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shmget

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When you say both sites are linked, do you mean you used a VPN?

You will need to put the IP address of the other repeater as the 2nd site in the programming. However, they have to be on a network where they can see each others packets without going through network address translation.

This is because Kenwood embeds the source IP in the UDP datagram it sends out, and as such, if there is a mismatch between the IP it receives, and the IP in the datagram, the repeater will key up but the audio will not come through.

For instance, let's say you have the following setup:

Repeater 1:

Local IP: 192.168.1.2
Public IP of router: 98.200.2.1

Repeater 2:

Local IP: 192.168.2.2
Public IP of router: 98.200.5.1


In the Kenwood programming for Repeater 1, you would use 192.168.1.2 for your own IP (Site 1). Site 2, most people would normally think you would put 98.200.5.1, since that is the Public IP of Site2.

However, because the repeater at Site 2 is actually on 192.168.2.2, when the datagram arrives from Site 2, the repeater sees a packet from 98.200.2.1 (Site 1 public IP due to NAT), but the embedded address in the UDP datagram is 192.168.1.2.

This is why you need a VPN, because if they are on the same network (not necessarily subnet), then the source address will be the same as the address embedded in the packet.

There are programs in the Amateur Radio world that have been written to overcome this, but the one I wrote is not ready for any type of commercial use.

Maybe the commercial radio dealers can chime in here, but I believe this is why Kenwood says you must use a VPN.

Hope this helps somewhat.
 

jcefd10

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No sir, there was no vpn used. That's how we were going to do it, but one of our kenwood reps swore it wasn't needed. I was able to get both sites up, and pingable from one another. The. When all was said and done, they quit being pingable after just a short while. Right now site 1's kti is behind a sonicwall firewall, and the other is just behind a dsl modem. Both in a DMZ zone to have all traffic forwarded to the device itself. I keep getting contradictory information from the ones involved with this install. One side says a firewall will not work, and a VPN won't either. And multicast HAS to be used. The other says it doesnt matter what the kti boxes are behind, it'll work. So I've just done the best I know how. At this point, I can't get the repeaters to key one another, or whatever they're supposed to do with this setup..



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jcefd10

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The ones telling me how to do it have zero networking experience. It's just odd I can't ping them now

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ramal121

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Sonoma, CA
I agree with Bob. The KTI-3/NXR will not handle NAT. The system I just put up needed a tunnel for the third party service provider to the sites. If you can figure out another way more power to you (and I'm no network geek). Until you can ping the IP's end to end nothing is going to work.

You are not stuck just using multicast. With two repeaters unicast will work fine and is simpler to set up.

Programming for the repeater has to be correct under Channel Edit, Conventional IP Network, and Site Group Table.
 
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jcefd10

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Preston, GA
Well, they are linked, and keying off one another. But no audio now. Just like y'all said it'd do with NAT translation

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jcefd10

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Preston, GA
Got a VPN set up today. Got both repeaters programmed.. kti3 is not showing on my router as having an address. I can ping firewall to firewall. Anything I'm overlooking at this point?

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motomeso

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The KTI-3 gets programmed in the repeater programming software. What repeaters are you using?
 

jcefd10

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Preston, GA
Kti 1 is 192.168.10.10
Kti 2 is 192.268.20.10

But they are not pingable and I can't see them in the router as having an IP address

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baycomm

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Both the SonicWall routers & the Kenwood gear have a considerable leaning curve needed to get them working properly. It will be very difficult to do so via forum posts.
What I can tell you for certain is that it does work. We use only SonicWall routers and have numerous Kenwood sites linked together.
 

jcefd10

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Preston, GA
I'm just asking for general knowledge here. Maybe something obvious I overlooked. Like I said before, I'm only helping with this BC my friend owns the radio shop. I believe you that it works. It's just disheartening to have had them keying one another 2 nights ago, but not passing audio by having them linked the wrong way only to do it the right way and get nothing.

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dapaq2

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Oct 10, 2005
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Merrillville, Indiana
Would you be willing to share with us what you did to get them to communicate with each other? I would be very interested to know the step by step procedures you took to get them to work and what all is involved. :) Thanks!
 

jcefd10

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Preston, GA
Sure! As stated earlier in this thread, a VPN between the 2 locations makes this super easy.

So, step 1 is to make sure you get your ISP to set you a static IP for all locations that youll be linking. That is a necessity. Our county opted to have a dedicated connection put in just for the repeaters.
Step 2, get 2 small VPN capable routers, or however many you'd need according to how many locations you have.
This is the time consuming step. As you have to get your router's to authenticate in whatever type network your ISP is ( ours is pppoe so it was fairly simple). In my case I put the modem on each end in "bridge mode" and even set up the ppoe username and password in the router so that it was pulling the IP address.

Now it's time to set up the vpn. We used Netgear routers, and they have a VPN wizard built in that makes it simple. First of you need to set your local LAN IP ranges accordingly. I used 192.168.1.1 for site 1, and 192.168.10.1 for site 2. I
You create the name of the VPN policy, a shared serurity key , and the remote wan IP of the remote site, the local LAN IP of remote site, and that's it! Do that at each site and then got have a secure connection and a "virtual local LAN" for your repeaters.


Now, the kti3 programming is done within the kpg software. Under the Edit dropdown menu is a setting that says Conventional IP.
In there you choose Unicast, and enter the IP addresses for the sites. In my case we had 2 sites so I set up site 1 with the IP of 192.168.1.5. Subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. Gateway 192.168.1.1.
On site 2, I put 192 168.10.5 and your leave the subnet and gateway alone.

Go under channel edit and make sure there is a check box in each sites you've created, and you must do the same under Edit and site group table ( or something.. I don't have the software handy).
Then program.

I could likely have it setup in a few hours now compared to the week it took us.

I'm sorry if these steps seem confusing. If you have a question about any specific part I'll be glad to elaborate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG S7.
 
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