LA County EMS Exclusive Operating Areas (EOAs)

[inigo88]

Hey guys,

One thing I've thought we could do better for a while in LA County is present the private ambulance companies providing exclusive 911 service in a more straightforward way. For example, AMR's Green 1 & Green 2 freqs for the Antelope Valley/Santa Clarita are buried under "other agencies\businesses\private ambulance companies", when really they should probably be on the main LA county database page as they are the primary contractual EMS 911 response provider in the areas they serve. I guess I'm not the only one confused by this, because if you search this forum back far enough you can find a lot of "who is the ambulance company in Irwindale?" type threads.

Here are a couple good ones:
https://forums.radioreference.com/g...scussion/582-la-area-ambulance-companies.html
https://forums.radioreference.com/g...ion/287059-amr-la-county-uhf-frequencies.html
https://forums.radioreference.com/g...ussion/139489-amr-los-angeles-operations.html
https://forums.radioreference.com/g...486-mccormick-ambulance-freqs-talkgroups.html

One logical way of separating these EMS agencies from all the other mom and pop interfacility transfer companies may be to refer to them based on the EMS Exclusive Operating Areas (EOAs) they serve. I've attached a 2018 CA EMSA ground ambulance EOA status document and an LA county EOA map from 2016, but the EOA numbers don't appear to match. If the more recent 2018 EMSA document is to be believed, it appears that AMR, Westmed/McCormick, Care and Schaefer have the EOA contracts.

My question to the LA area scanner gurus is then:

1. Which of the two attached documents show the correct EOA numbers?

2. Are the companies with the EOA contracts listed above current and accurate?

3. Does anyone know the frequencies used by said companies? I can take a stab at it:

- AMR: Green 1 (Antelope Valley) 461.5125 PL 192.8, Green 2 (Santa Clarita) 451.925 100.0 PL
- Schaefer: 47.58 MHz (various tones)
- Care: Various National Science and Technology Network LTR Standard systems (which ones are active?).
- Westmed/McCormick: These guys are tricky. There's past evidence of them using the NSTN LTR systems in the database. Scannerstuff Southern CA Frequency Directory lists them on the Mobile Relay Associates LTR systems, which have since been converted to NXDN48 trunking (and I think I've caught McCormick on these MRA NXDN48 systems, but not positive).

4. Seems like this information could be presented in the database in a more organized way, but how? (I'll defer to the locals like LAFlyer on this one, but it seems like we could take advantage of geo-tagging subcategories by EOA for the GPS scanner folks if we had current and accurate information.)

If nothing else, I'd appreciate any feedback from those in the know on who currently uses what system. Thanks!

 

[redneckcellphone]

Here is Orange County it is the same way but the ambulances are dispatched on the same frequencies as the fire department.

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[scottyhetzel]

Here is Orange County it is the same way but the ambulances are dispatched on the same frequencies as the fire department.

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Those are rescue squads...some with transport. Indigo is writing about private companies not city or county units.

 

[redneckcellphone]

Orange county fire authority uses care ambulances not rescue squads

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[Markb]

Here is Orange County it is the same way but the ambulances are dispatched on the same frequencies as the fire department.

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Ambulances are not dispatched on the same frequencies.

They respond to incidents on assigned CCCS talkgroups. They are still dispatched, statused and give transport info on their company frequencies/talkgroups.

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[LAflyer]

Personally, I feel the frequencies should remain in the business section and not moved over the primary LA or OC pages.

There are many providers in the region and only a fraction of their activity is County 911 EMS related. A bulk of their activity is private transports, intra-hospital activity, or to/from places like dialysis centers..

Additionally, I believe many of the listed analog frequencies have likely been depreciated as it seems most companies transitioned to one of the many wide area LTR systems(and sites) or other unlisted trunked providers over the years.


p.s. - Also lets not forget the EOA contracts while technically decade-long, do see constant changes as companies merge, go out of business, or simply abandon serving some areas. Just in 2017 a bunch of shuffles happened as Care, AMR and Schaffer moved areas in a contentious process. Also lets not forget many independent cities also contract for private transport, which can be an entirely a different provider than an adjacent County EOA,

 

[PaulNDaOC]

I agree with LaFlyer about keeping the listings where they are, but it would be appropriate for a wiki page that gives the opportunity to add maps, station locations and more.

Only a few cities not served by the County Fire District have an EOA because of a state law that grandfathered in cities before a certain date already using city operated transport a requirement that the local county health agency would oversee 911 ambulance bidding.

I think it's just Monrovia, Compton, and Redondo Beach that have the county handle it, and they have their own EOA's. Monrovia is the only city now where the once mighty Cole/Schaeffer still have 911 response.

I think these are 10-year contracts and Care was the victor in tussles with AMR and Cole/Schaefer for territory..

20 years ago AMR had the entire county east of the 110 and all of North County. How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Eng74]

AMR took most of the areas where they can bill and get paid more than what Medacare will pay.

 

[LBH]

20 years ago AMR.... How the mighty have fallen.

They've had their phoenix moment. They own McCormick.

 

[inigo88]

Personally, I feel the frequencies should remain in the business section and not moved over the primary LA or OC pages.

There are many providers in the region and only a fraction of their activity is County 911 EMS related. A bulk of their activity is private transports, intra-hospital activity, or to/from places like dialysis centers..

This is the big one that I couldn't reconcile. Each of these private ambulance companies that have EOA contracts will also be running interfacility transfers and BLS calls unrelated to the county 911 system. Chances are they'll be using the same radios in all their rigs, and may or may have a separate channel for the EOA 911 dispatches vs the BLS/IFT stuff. And judging from some previous threads it sounds like some of the companies use the same rigs for 911 calls and IFTs, based on who is geographically closest. AMR seems to be an exception, with the Antelope Valley and Santa Clarita units on UHF and the other LA basin units on lowband.

Different counties run their EMS dispatch infrastructure differently as well. I get the impression that EOA medics in LA and Orange counties respond on their own radio systems in parallel with the county fire responses. Previous threads have indicated that LA County Fire units have AMR Green 1 and Green 2 programmed, and AMR units have the LA County Fire Blue channels, but they normally remain on their own respective systems. AMR in the city of San Diego on the other hand (recently replaced/acquired Rural/Metro?) operates entirely on the city's county fire radio channels.

I've been informed that the LA County EOA map from 2016 shows the correct EOA numbers, and the EMSA document is outdated.

I was also informed that both Care and McCormick are still on the NSTN LTR systems. I was thinking of Liberty Ambulance and some of the other BLS/IFT providers on the Mobile Relay Associates NXDN48 systems, but none of the 911 EOA providers are using any digital systems (yet).

Here's the current breakdown for LA county EOA contracts:

EOA 1 AMR

EOA 2 Schaefer

EOA 3 Care

EOA 4 Care

EOA 5 Care

EOA 6 McCormick

EOA 7 McCormick

EOA 8 McCormick

EOA 9 McCormick

 

[PaulNDaOC]

Inigo88, I believe that Schaeffer is the only provider in the basin on VHF-low unless McCormick dropped the UHF LTR system they were on before AMR acquired them.

Care is on two separate LTR systems and use at least three or four different talk groups in LA County and you will not hear private calls on the groups handling 911 calls. I don't think it is practical for 911 units to be used for private runs because of the minimum staffing requirements levels and caps on posting that is in the contract with the county.

But you can bet that as long as they meet the standards in the contract the units 'running 'grunt runs' will get pulled into 911 if it got to the point where they were going to have to use their declared secondary backup company to keep the fines down due to response time violations.

In Orange County, Care uses their private rigs all the time for EMS.

 

[inigo88]

Just a quick update, this talkgroup list was PM'ed to me after making this thread:

EOA 1 AMR
Antelope Valley - 461.5125R PL 192.8
Santa Clarita Valley - 451.925R PL 100.0

EOA 2 Schaefer
47.58 PL 173.8

EOA 3 Care
West: NSTN Lukens 1, 1-16-120
East: NSTN Sunset, 0-15-121

EOA 4 Care
NSTN Sunset, 0-15-122

EOA 5 Care
NSTN Lukens 1, 1-18-120

EOA 6 McCormick
See EOA 7 North

EOA 7 McCormick
North: NSTN Lukens 1, 1-16-020 “Carson” (area surrounding/including Compton (EOA#6))
South: NSTN Lukens 1, 1-16-012 “Central” (Palos Verdes area)

EOA 8 McCormick
RDB-plans to self transport; see EOA 9 south

EOA 9 McCormick
South: NSTN Lukens 1, 1-16-015 “Hawthorne”
Northwest: NSTN Multi, 0-06-003 “Valley”

Santa Monica McCormick
NSTN Multi, 0-06-012 "Santa Monica"

Torrance McCormick
NSTN Lukens 1, 1-16-012 “Central”

NSTN Multi is their multisite system listed in the DB as "Mt. Lukens, Oat, Sierra."

NSTN Mt Lukens 1: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5261
NSTN "Multi" (Mt Lukens, Oat, Sierra): https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5750
NSTN Sunset Ridge: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5462

Note that NSTN "Multi" isn't actually a multi-site system. The database admin entering the system searched the frequencies in the FCC database and due to the way the NSTN licenses are structured it's impossible to know which of those three sites is the real site without first hand confirmation. However based on the geographic location of the talkgroup users on the "Multi" system, and the commonality of frequencies across several of their FCC licenses, I'm now quite sure this system is actually "NSTN Santa Monica Mountains."

FCC Licenses:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WPME693 (Loc 2)
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WPMP967 (Loc 5)

One other important note, I believe some of these talkgroups are patched across multiple LTR systems (especially the McCormick talkgroups). For example, the following *may* be patched (but one could also be obsolete if they moved sites, additional monitoring is necessary):

NSTN Mt Lukens 1: 1-16-020 McCormick Ambulance "Carson"
NSTN Rancho Palos Verdes 2: 0-11-020 McCormick Ambulance "Carson"

NSTN Mt Lukens 1: 1-16-015 McCormick Ambulance "Hawthorne"
NSTN Rancho Palos Verdes 2: 0-11-015 McCormick Ambulance "Hawthorne"

NSTN Mt Lukens 1: 1-16-012 McCormick Ambulance "Central"
NSTN Rancho Palos Verdes 2: 0-11-012 McCormick Ambulance "Central"

It seems clear that McCormick has separate dispatch channels for "Carson", "Hawthorne" and "Central", that are likely patched across multiple NSTN systems. The channel in the rig will likely say the site name and the channel name (due to the limits of LTR systems) but the same traffic on the Carson talkgroup on Mt Lukens would be heard on the Carson talkgroup on Rancho Palos Verdes.

I also noted that Care Ambulance EOA 5 West on NSTN Mt Lukens 1-18-120 was being dispatched by a Care dispatcher (IDs heard 5121, 3121) where as Care Ambulance EOA 4 on NSTN Sunset 1-15-122 was being dispatched by "County Fire" (IDs heard 4807, 4607). The dispatcher on EOA 5 East NSTN Sunset 1-15-121 was the same "County Fire" dispatcher head on 1-15-122 (IDs heard 6116).

 

[RWPowell2]

Here is Orange County it is the same way but the ambulances are dispatched on the same frequencies as the fire department.

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Contract ambulances are dispatched on the OCCCS talk groups. Non-contract ambulances are dispatched by their company dispatchers. Contact ambulances have both an OCCCS radio in addition to their company radio. If a private (non-contract) ambulance is dispatched to an incident the responding paramedic company will receive the ambulance ID on there MDC and if the paramedics need to communicate with them it must be relayed though the respective dispatch centers. There are more non-contract ALS ambulances in OC than contract ambulances.

Each city is responsible for contracting their EMS transport service provider. Some cities operate there own ambulance service. Two of these cities are San Clemente and Westminster. In these cities the ambulances operate from the fire stations. All other contract ambulances operate from lease facilities near their respective fire station.

 

[PaulNDaOC]

The Care non-contract ambulances have the county radio in their rigs too. I hear them talking to MetroNet all the time. They have a callsign that begins with 'T' then four numbers.

I'm pretty sure OCFA got out of the emergency transport business recently, and Westminster and San Clemente have private ambulance transport now.

Pulse-Point shows unit id's that show it must be Care.