Lakewood Simplex?

[rdrunnermedic]

Just heard a West Metro unit reference monitoring "Simplex 2" in addition to TAC-2. The TAC-2 we already know but does anybody have any idea as to what simplex frequency he was referencing? Is this a new set-up where the TAC TG's will be paired with a simplex FG like South Metro does?

My other thought was that he was referencing the State Simplex 2 (851.750 N293) but I was too far away to figure out if this was the case.

Any thoughts or info on this out there?

 

[nathancarlson]

If its a simplex, you would have to be very close to the incident to figure out which one it is. I rarely hear traffic on simplex channels unless I am extremely close, as they are not repeated. These are a great advantage to the radio operators in situations where they have a hard time reaching the repeater, like in a building or a dead spot, simplex channels are very helpful so they can communicate with each other. I wish they had similar technology when we were using direct connect on our cell phones at my old company and couldn't communicate to each other within the same building since we didn't have cell coverage in some buildings. It was frustrating!

Sorry I couldn't help ID what channel it was, but I think its a good idea for departments to have simplex to fall back on and wonder myself if most agencies do have one in place (and the ability for the radio users to understand this and use it if it is available to them).

 

[rdrunnermedic]

If its a simplex, you would have to be very close to the incident to figure out which one it is. I rarely hear traffic on simplex channels unless I am extremely close, as they are not repeated. These are a great advantage to the radio operators in situations where they have a hard time reaching the repeater, like in a building or a dead spot, simplex channels are very helpful so they can communicate with each other. I wish they had similar technology when we were using direct connect on our cell phones at my old company and couldn't communicate to each other within the same building since we didn't have cell coverage in some buildings. It was frustrating!

Sorry I couldn't help ID what channel it was, but I think its a good idea for departments to have simplex to fall back on and wonder myself if most agencies do have one in place (and the ability for the radio users to understand this and use it if it is available to them).

No problem. I was mobile in Littleton when I heard them reference it, so I knew I was much too far away to have any shot at picking a simplex transmission from Lakewood out of the air. I was hoping that someone over on that end of town was able to capture and share it instead.

I totally agree with you on the point of simplex frequency use. There are times where use of a repeater is not appropriate or efficient. I once worked for an agency that used a Desktrac style repeater (which is definitely not-continuous duty) for a public safety operations channel. Let me tell you, it was a nightmare using that machine. The simplex talkaround pretty much became the primary quite simply because the repeater would overheat and shut down if there was a string of transmissions that (cumulatively) exceeded 30-60 seconds in length!

I'll talk a walk through the FCC licences and see if there's anything new there. Hopefully they have occasion to use it again when I'm at home so I can figure out what it is.

 

[datainmotion]

Don't forget these - Nationwide P25 Simplex

 

[rdrunnermedic]

Don't forget these - Nationwide P25 Simplex

That was my first thought, that it was state Simplex 2 (851.750 N293). I looked through the FCC database, which was enigmatic as usual, but returned no new or existing 800MHz licences which would be likely for use as a free-standing simplex. It seems likely that it was the Simplex 2 from the state pool, but I guess I can't know for sure until it can be confirmed.

Edited to say: I guess what was confusing to me was that I thought that the state 800MHz simplex frequency pool was only for use by CCNC members/DTRS subscribers. Although, it makes perfect sense that the users of the Lakewood/West Metro system would be granted access to them.

 

[rfburns]

Remember that Fireground comms are supposed to be analog. Naturally not every dept. does that and WMFR could be P25. There is also the Mt. Morrison analog Fireground repeater which I still have not heard. See the "Lakewood PS P25" thread.

 

[rdrunnermedic]

Remember that Fireground comms are supposed to be analog. Naturally not every dept. does that and WMFR could be P25. There is also the Mt. Morrison analog Fireground repeater which I still have not heard. See the "Lakewood PS P25" thread.

I've done some more digging around in the FCC database and found the following frequencies attached to the TRS licences but not used by the TRS sites:

Green Mtn:
853.0125
854.1875
854.6125

Mt. Morrison:
854.1875
854.6125

854.1875 and 854.6125 are found at both sites while 853.0125 is only found at the Green Mtn. site. I'll plug these into the regular rotation and see what I can come up with.

 

[bigbw1]

From what I have been hearing West Metro and LPD are having all kinds of radio issues with the new system. West Metro was on a HazMat call at Red Rocks Community College the other day. They took their portables to Simplex 2 (851.7500) and the district chief was monitoring both Tac 2 and Smplex 2. I live only about a 1000 feet from the school. I guess the problem with the portables is that they do not work very well inside buildings while on the digital system. The LPD Tom units complained that if they are using their motorcycle radios and they are under a bridge they can't receive or send out any radio traffic. West Metro dose also use Simplex when they are on calls that take them in to the mountain areas of the district such as Waterton Canyon. I hope they get the problem fix before some gets hurt or worse.

 

[rdrunnermedic]

From what I have been hearing West Metro and LPD are having all kinds of radio issues with the new system. West Metro was on a HazMat call at Red Rocks Community College the other day. They took their portables to Simplex 2 (851.7500) and the district chief was monitoring both Tac 2 and Smplex 2. I live only about a 1000 feet from the school. I guess the problem with the portables is that they do not work very well inside buildings while on the digital system. The LPD Tom units complained that if they are using their motorcycle radios and they are under a bridge they can't receive or send out any radio traffic. West Metro dose also use Simplex when they are on calls that take them in to the mountain areas of the district such as Waterton Canyon. I hope they get the problem fix before some gets hurt or worse.

Great! Thanks for your reply. It would appear as though the mystery of WMFR's use of Simplex 2 has been solved and that it was the Simplex 2 out of the CCNC pool.

I'll keep the unused 800 frequencies in the rotation, though. Maybe I'll be able to identify the Mt. Morrison Fireground Repeater.

 

[rfburns]

WMFR using Simplex 3 for the 21st Avenue fire. Yes Three.

 

[datainmotion]

853.0125 is 8Tac94 from the Nationwide 800 Mutual Aid assignments

Interoperability Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

 

[greenthumb]

WMFR using Simplex 3 for the 21st Avenue fire. Yes Three.

In analog or P25 mode?

 

[rdrunnermedic]

853.0125 is 8Tac94 from the Nationwide 800 Mutual Aid assignments

Interoperability Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Thanks. I don't know how I managed to forget that. I've added the 854.1875 and 854.6125 frequencies to the rotation, now to just wait and see what comes up.

In analog or P25 mode?

I don't believe that the state simplex frequencies are programmed to operate in analog mode. From my experience all the simplexes are programmed as P25 with the common NAC of 293.

 

[rdrunnermedic]

Hearing some activity on 854.1875 currently. Radio test counts are being performed with "Dispatch". All traffic so far has been simplex with a PL of 156.7. Several instances of techs just clicking the mics, too.

Nothing yet on 854.6125.

Edited to add: Seems like they're all done for now. The usual test pattern was a unit calling "Test one, two, three" and then a mic click as a reply. "Dispatch" came on after about 10 minutes of this and did a test count that went: "Dispatch testing; one, two, three - dispatch clear 16:07".

 

[greenthumb]

I don't believe that the state simplex frequencies are programmed to operate in analog mode. From my experience all the simplexes are programmed as P25 with the common NAC of 293.

Right, but that's left up to the person programming the radio as to whether they actually do it or not Since it's for fireground operations, it made me wonder-

 

[rdrunnermedic]

Right, but that's left up to the person programming the radio as to whether they actually do it or not Since it's for fireground operations, it made me wonder-

Sure. I was just referring to the CCNC policy that states that the statewide simplex frequencies must be programmed as P25 with a NAC of 293 at 3W or less. No doubt there are agencies and comm shops that don't adhere to this policy, but so far I've only ever seen the simplexes programmed this way.

 

[rfburns]

This morning's fire tfc was on simplex 3 and I copied P25 tfc on 852.550 during the fire, but I could not determine for 100% certain that it was the simplex 3 traffic that I was hearing.

 

[rfburns]

Simplex 4 traffic is a couple of people who have found what they think is their own private BS channel. NAC 293. Sounds like their real job is moving sand. They are getting ready to quit work for the day ATT.

 

[rdrunnermedic]

Simplex 4 traffic is a couple of people who have found what they think is their own private BS channel. NAC 293. Sounds like their real job is moving sand. They are getting ready to quit work for the day ATT.

It seems like they pair the simplex channels with the Tac TG's: i.e. TAC 2 and Simplex 2, TAC 3 and Simplex 3, ect.

Since those simplexes are available to any eligible agency, statewide, there's a lot of unrelated BS on them. I hear CDOT road crews on them pretty much every day, along with State Parks maintenance and other non-public safety agencies. NAC 293 is supposed to be programmed as the NAC on all of those state simplexes (at least according to CCNC policy).