Lancaster County - P25 System (Part II)

[u2brent]

Finally,
Some good news for LCWC listeners & hobbyists.

What are police talking about on their encrypted radios? The public may soon find out [update]

Lancaster County residents could soon have access to police communications, which have been restricted for the past two and a half years.

lancasteronline.com

LE encryption may end soon.. (At least on the Dispatch side anyway, The way it was before they flipped the 100% LE switch)

Lancaster County-Wide Communications (LCWC) Trunking System, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

Lancaster County-Wide Communications (LCWC) Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Great! Hope Berks County (and eventually Montco whenever they make the switch) soon follow. Maybe PSP if we're lucky, but that could be a pipe dream

 

[radio3353]

From the article..."Weaver also said that decryption would cost roughly $100,000, which Lehman said he would happily spend." There was no explanation backing up that statement, so I have to ask, why would decryption cost $100,000?

 

[wa8pyr]

From the article..."Weaver also said that decryption would cost roughly $100,000, which Lehman said he would happily spend." There was no explanation backing up that statement, so I have to ask, why would decryption cost $100,000?

The cost in manpower to go around and reprogram radios and consoles that are set up to encrypt full-time.

 

[radio3353]

The cost in manpower to go around and reprogram radios and consoles that are set up to encrypt full-time.

OK. With my county, engaging encryption is nothing more than flipping a switch. The radio room and mobiles turn it on and off quite often when desired (especially recently with the protests going on.) So that is why I questioned the $100,000 dollar outlay. I guess their system is different.

 

[u2brent]

They don't do OTA Programming AFAIK and they apparently can't just flip a switch, So every affected radio will need to be re-touched.. It was an idiot idea to implement in the first place 2 1/2 Years ago, IMHO.. What a waste to do it in the first place, Then have to pay again to undo it.. What a waste.. Based on the number of RID's I've logged, there are over 2000 LE radios.. Just an approximation.. That would be $50 per radio..

But glad it may return.. They have to vote on it first. It will make the Avoid Button relevant again

 

[HM1529]

Great! Hope Berks County (and eventually Montco whenever they make the switch) soon follow. Maybe PSP if we're lucky, but that could be a pipe dream

Maybe, if Montco residents contact the County commissioners with a cogent argument based on Lancaster‘s planned changes and Buck’s policy you may see some change. The time seems right.

 

[BigLebowski]

This would be great.. like others I was rather pissed when they went secure on everything. Although to be fair I miss when it was all VHF analog back in the good days.

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Never made sense from the beginning for them to encrypt the dispatch channels when they already had all the secondary channels encrypted. I do remember police running record checks on the dispatch channels when they were still in the clear. One thing that could be done if concern is shown for this info being put out in the open again is add a new encrypted channel to all the police radios that would be used for that purpose. Other counties have similar channels in place for this but it also requires a dedicated dispatcher to handle it at the comm center so it may not work for Lancaster County but it could be worth looking into.

 

[BigLebowski]

Did this fizzle? The article said there would be a vote in August.

 

[u2brent]

Last I heard they voted and encryption will remain as is. The press didn't seem to report this tidbit..

 

[goodmore]

There was an article on the recent vote on Lancaster Online. Encryption will stay. It also sounded to me like the police were going to take it to court if the vote would have went the other way. So there it is. Not going to happen.

 

[Tommahawk]

The LCWC P25 system is very tightly controlled. Its almost like Cheynne Mountain (Space Command). Unless you steal the programming keys (I believe there are only two or three of them total), you unfortunately aren't going to hear the encrypted communications.

There was a time a I believe five or so years ago when the system wasn't locked down too tight and they actually left the passwords blank, but thats not happening anymore.

 

[cavmedic]

Maybe, if Montco residents contact the County commissioners with a cogent argument based on Lancaster‘s planned changes and Buck’s policy you may see some change. The time seems right.

I heard an email was just sent to Montco Commissioners last week prior to one of their meetings asking questions as to why encryption is being aloud, and challenged anyone to find just one instance where a criminal was using a scanner to listen, and stay ahead of PD or specifically put any officers safety at risk during the commission of a crime on their last system that was in the clear since the 90's.


I dont believe that public comment was ever read, nor responded to. Montco is to busy pushing for a certain Commissioner into a senate seat with her " response" to covid, to care about anything else.

 

[BigLebowski]

I can see both sides.. it annoys me when I travel, especially for work, to Lancaster and I can't hear anything. At the same time, some jack@$$ locally streams EVERY talkgroup of our system onto his website and tweets everything every surveillance unit does and where they are, so I made a choice to just encrypt the majority of it.

This hobby unfortunately is filled with people who have no information control and no common sense. Not all, but a lot. The anti-cop "what are they hiding" rhetoric doesn't help either. The fact anyone thinks that 1) Such things would happen on a large scale, even in today's environment; and 2) such things would be discussed on the radio shows how disconnected from reality they are.

I get wanting to listen but no amount of tantrum is gonna make that happen once the E-switch is thrown.

 

[cavmedic]

I can see both sides.. it annoys me when I travel, especially for work, to Lancaster and I can't hear anything. At the same time, some jack@$$ locally streams EVERY talkgroup of our system onto his website and tweets everything every surveillance unit does and where they are, so I made a choice to just encrypt the majority of it.

This hobby unfortunately is filled with people who have no information control and no common sense. Not all, but a lot. The anti-cop "what are they hiding" rhetoric doesn't help either. The fact anyone thinks that 1) Such things would happen on a large scale, even in today's environment; and 2) such things would be discussed on the radio shows how disconnected from reality they are.

I get wanting to listen but no amount of tantrum is gonna make that happen once the E-switch is thrown.

Well, it is more than just “ listeners” as it does impact other responders as well but all of those issues have been beaten to death and no sense adding another thread about that.

 

[u2brent]

Pro-651 & 197 artifact

I have a Pro-651 and 197 both programmed the same. They are both programmed to a p25 phase 1 system in Lancaster County, Pa. Years ago the County switched all the police talk groups to encryption. Ever since I am receiving encrypted artifact on non-encrypted talk groups. It usually occurs after...

forums.radioreference.com

Lancaster encryption issue

Good afternoon! I currently have Radio shack pro-651 and pro-197 that are recieving encrypted transmissions on non-encrypted channels. I drives me bonkers! This only started happening a lot since the county encrypted all of the PD tgs and some private tgs. I do not have this problem with my...

forums.radioreference.com

@gibersop These old threads are closed, but new info has come to light..

Turns out our old scanners aren't lying..
They have some form of encryption going on those "in the clear" dispatch channels..
The scanner is functioning as it was designed. It just doesn't mute the little bits that are enc like some newer model radios..

Been playing with the new DSD+ function, Sure Nuff it indicates there's something going on..

One significant clue..
Same KID as LE, which we know went 100%

Only running a few minutes, I'm sure the longer I let it cook, More will get that info following the TG names.

 

[u2brent]

After running a few hours, Here's the pertinent bits gleaned from the log.

2021/12/19  20:15:05  Freq=477.662500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=716 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  1s
2021/12/19  20:15:23  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=6264122 [Lancaster City Eng2 Mob]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  20:25:03  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2005 [Dispatch B (NE)]  RID=6263872 [Lafayette FP2 Port]   Pri0  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  3s
2021/12/19  20:29:17  Freq=477.362500  NAC=293  Enc Group call; TG=2005 [Dispatch B (NE)]  RID=716 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  6s
2021/12/19  20:40:33  Freq=477.362500  NAC=293  Enc Group call; TG=2005 [Dispatch B (NE)]  RID=719 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  2s
2021/12/19  20:40:47  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=4701 [KGC755 Dispatch]  RID=700 [LCWC Disp/Tones/Testing]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  20:43:03  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2005 [Dispatch B (NE)]  RID=6382032 [Manheim Twp Med Port]   Pri0  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  20:46:10  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=717 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  1s
2021/12/19  20:55:07  Freq=477.662500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=4701 [KGC755 Dispatch]  RID=716 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  1s
2021/12/19  21:04:56  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=4701 [KGC755 Dispatch]  RID=700 [LCWC Disp/Tones/Testing]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  1s
2021/12/19  21:13:05  Freq=477.362500  NAC=293  Enc Group call; TG=2005 [Dispatch B (NE)]  RID=716 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  7s
2021/12/19  21:19:22  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=6388101 [Wakefield ILS1 Mob]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  3s
2021/12/19  21:33:57  Freq=477.662500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=6306103 [Med6-8 LRMC LEMSA Mob3]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  21:38:45  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=717 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  21:39:38  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=717 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  1s
2021/12/19  21:43:51  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=6306071 [Med6-7 LGH LEMSA Port1]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  21:48:18  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=717 [EMS Disp A/B/C]   Pri3  Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)  1s
2021/12/19  21:59:49  Freq=477.662500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=6306107 [Med56-1/6-1/5/7/81/9 WValley/ELamp/Mville/LRMC/WBH LEMSA Mob7]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)
2021/12/19  22:07:41  Freq=477.362500  NAC=D63  Enc Group call; TG=2009 [Dispatch C (City & South)]  RID=6306126 [Amb6-21/22/Med6-4 Mville/ELamp LEMSA Port6]    Alg=AES  KeyID=0040 (64)

 

[u2brent]

Has anybody observed the voice channels having different NAC's on other sites besides the South?
FYI, it is not a mistake. It's been going on since they did that modification about 3 years ago (swapping some inputs, I believe to compensate for WFDC transmitting on 15).. If not longer..
D63 is the expected value, 293 is the outlier for the South site.
Every time the NAC changes on the received VC, DSD has a fit and resets the sys info.

And here's another screenshot of the E thing going on (On in the clear TGID's) after running for 12 hrs or so on the South site..

I know some FD's have encrypted their private channels, I wonder if E is creeping closer on all traffic..

 

[Rishayan]

As long as the people remain silent and keep paying their taxes to the communist government, they will continue to "privatize" everything, including all of their communications, 100% paid for by the common taxpayer. Although I am not opposed to sensitive police communications being encrypted, we the citizens and taxpayers of a formally free nation have every right to know what is going on around our towns and cities, and what the public servants are doing with the money we pay them. We can no longer depend on the alarmist and fake news media to tell us the truth or give us the complete and unbiased local news information that we all have the right to know. Every single police agency should be required, by law, to openly broadcast, either on the public service bands and/or on the internet, all the important local dispatch's of events that can affect us, the general public, such as accidents, major police activity, break ins, assaults, robberies, etc. The more secret we allow the police to become in conducting their PUBLIC business, the more probable that corruption and outright criminal acts by law enforcement can take place. I have been monitoring police communications for over 40 years coast to coast across the US and Mexico and have heard many unbelievable transmissions by our public servants. Police yelling obscenities at incompetent dispatchers ( uptown Harrisburg PD about 30 years ago during a disturbance that became dangerous for law enforcement). Homophobic comments and slurs about people walking down the street on a vice surveillance channel ( San Diego PD about 25 years ago). Outright racist comments and slurs made by a drug team PD unit ( High Point NC PD about 10 years ago, their communications are now 100% encrypted). How our publicly paid law enforcement conduct themselves is everyone's right to know! They are not privately contracted garbage collectors. The more secret they become, the more dangerous it becomes for all of us!