Lancaster County - P25 System (Was OpenSky System Dumped)

[ocguard]

So alot of departments are buying Phase 1/Phase 2 radios.

How long does the county plan on staying phase 1 if everyone out the door is getting phase 1/2 radios?

Phase II is the state of the art. In fact, most manufacturers and vendors don't even actively market Phase I-only products anymore. Also consider that surrounding systems may become Phase II and interoperability will be important. I'd imagine that PSP/STAR-Net will probably transition to Phase-II P25 soon. Maryland's state-wide system is Phase-II. Chester will be Phase-II.

But yes, inevitably, there will be phase-II talk groups on Lancaster's P25 system. If certain agencies choose to buy all phase-II subscriber equipment out of the gate, perhaps they will load that agency's talk groups as Phase II to reduce system impact.

 

[dcr_inc]

Is anything happening on this system?.. Any info on roll out / cut over... Any word on coverage testing?..
Is there anything on the air yet?

 

[lancopa]

Nothing new? Less than a year to it goes live isn't it? and there is no word? Nice.

 

[lancopa]

Another thing that is going to suck. I was going to pre order the new Uniden scanners since they do Phase 2, and I am sure this county will switch over to it in a few years...So might as well buy something that can do it now.

However, depending on who you talk to, they all seem to know "someone who works at county" or the main people involved. But there is no definitive answer. "lancaster is going to be like Dauphin, all channels will be encrypted except for fire calls and EMS dispatch"

Or "Only narcs/under cover PD will be encrypted."

OR: "the whole system itself wont be able to be monitored."

Lancaster County gets OK for new radio system - News

Feb 24, 2011
"The T-band system is expected to "go live" in 2012, Weaver said.
There are portable scanners that monitor T-band systems, according to Weaver, so private citizens who listen to emergency communications will not be left in the dark.
Also, Weaver said the county is considering streaming some communications live.
"So your computer could be your scanner," he said.
"

Another one said they wanted a "transparent system".

I think they need to come out and state whether or not they spit in the taxpayers face or not. Open SKY screwed the county before. Tax payers haven't forgot.

 

[NodrogCop]

lancopa:

If it makes you feel any better, I'm involved with the radio issue on several fronts - none top tier or anything, and will be using the system when it goes live. I don't know what's going on with the encryption. The last I was aware, and this is only for the LE channels, is that all of the dispatch channels will be in the clear. I would think there will be assigned TG's for SERT, drugs, etc, that will obviously be encrypted. The local talkgroups were up to the agencies that were assigned them.

The lack of information is frustrating, but, as I have learned over the years, is generally how the county operates. Not secretively, but just not telling anyone what's going on unless asked.

FWIW, last date I heard for going live was June if all goes well. I know for a fact that PD's are having radios for the new system preinstalled. Nearly all have gone with Relm/BK KNG radios.

Gordon

 

[lancopa]

lancopa:

If it makes you feel any better, I'm involved with the radio issue on several fronts - none top tier or anything, and will be using the system when it goes live. I don't know what's going on with the encryption. The last I was aware, and this is only for the LE channels, is that all of the dispatch channels will be in the clear. I would think there will be assigned TG's for SERT, drugs, etc, that will obviously be encrypted. The local talkgroups were up to the agencies that were assigned them.

The lack of information is frustrating, but, as I have learned over the years, is generally how the county operates. Not secretively, but just not telling anyone what's going on unless asked.

FWIW, last date I heard for going live was June if all goes well. I know for a fact that PD's are having radios for the new system preinstalled. Nearly all have gone with Relm/BK KNG radios.

Gordon

Thanks for the information. So the PD channels will be In the clear? It would be nice if talk groups and ops would be opened. With the SERT and narc units and detectives or warrant servings.

 

[lancopa]

Has anyone heard any testing?

 

[lancopa]

I've been told through several rumor mills that the system has been pushed back to beginning 2015. Is this accurate.

 

[lancopa]

Also, I know this has been talked about for awhile. However more and more people are saying the radios they have ordered are all coming with both DES and AES encryption. The manual states Encryption is user selectable. So what's stopping them from leaving encryption turned on all the time for every channel?

 

[NodrogCop]

From very reliable sources, this is the latest:

1. The system is on track for an early-mid fall deployment. Fleet mapping is currently being worked on.

2. At least for law enforcement, all dispatch channels will be in the open. Most, but not all, non-dispatch talkgroups will be encrypted. This has been the plan - as I've known - for some time.

I cannot speak for the other disciplines (Fire, EMS) and don't know much more than what I've posted. I would guess that any final decisions on encryption aren't going to be made until the fleet mapping is done. It seems very few folks at the county level are interested in 100% encryption.

 

[daneg]

I can confirm our ems radios are coming with encryption and GPS. I guess so county can watch. I'm told though the emergency button won't work since we use repeaters. So it seems like a waste.


Encryption would probably be used for ambulance to hospital. So I wonder how many will use it instead of calling.

I find cell phones easier.

I am curious thought reading our manual it does indeed state encryption is user optional. So if I leave it on no one will hear. If it's on by default then I'm not sure. It doesn't say it it's channel only. Just says user selectable. So if everyone leaves it on I'd assume then all of EMS is encrypted because of user/agency choice. I assume this is the same way with fire.

Which will suck. As I like listening to everything. I also imagine because of price it won't happen you agency to just give you a portable to have.

Our manual also says they are phase 2 upgradeable. These are realm (spelling) radios.

I'm excited to actually be able to talk to my responding units instead of having county relay. I have my eye on one of the new uniden 436. But if it's closed mostly then there isn't a point. I'll buy another gun instead.

 

[NodrogCop]

From what I've been told, encryption will be on a per-talkgroup basis, not on a per-unit basis.

 

[daneg]

From what I've been told, encryption will be on a per-talkgroup basis, not on a per-unit basis.

That's what I've been told as well. It is interesting though to read the manual. It seems like if you just "forget" to turn it off, it will always be on, whoever is on that same channel should hear you, as on the display it will show if the receiving message is encrypted or not.

Just excited for it to go live finally.

 

[tower512ladder]

The last I heard the timeline was the last quater of 14 to go live,
Road crews/DPW and sherriffs first
Police and posiibly EMS second Can't remember for sure on EMS
Fire Third.

As far as Encryption, Police dispatch channels should be clear all TG will be encrypted, EMS will have some encryption, Fire is on an as needed basis.

LCWC is allowing 4 different manufaturers radios on the system. Relm, Tait, Thales, and Motorola. Encryption is included in the price of all the different tier Relm radios. With Moto encryption is an option that the "subscriber" must buy if they wish to have the capability. Tait and Thales I can't answer, but I would assume its an option you have to purchase.

It is confirmed that paging will remain on 33.90 for the foreseeable future. LCWC has the equipment to keep up the low band for years to come we were told.

They are building a dedicated alphanumeric paging system as has been discussed before as well as keeping the current "textpaging" system currently in use.

No talk of simulcating the p25 system to another conventional frequency to allow people to continue to use the scanners they allready have. You will have to upgrade to a "digital" scanner to listen.

 

[Subliminal87]

A few things from someone who has never programmed or had a digital scanner.


The new system. How well will the new system work with either the new Uniden 536 or 436 with the stock antenna? I assume it's very similar to Dauphin Counties and Yorks?


I know being in Dauphin or York I can be in one side of the county and pick up units on the other side. Heck, I can pick up Lebanon's system just fine from in Lancaster pretty clear.

What exactly is "fleet mapping"?

 

[Twister_2]

I hope the system's towers simulcast the audio county-wide. I'd love to hear what's going on in Peach Bottom all the way up in Dauphin County!

 

[Subliminal87]

I hope the system's towers simulcast the audio county-wide. I'd love to hear what's going on in Peach Bottom all the way up in Dauphin County!

If you had a digital scanner, would you still be able to pick it up if you were a bit further away from the simulcast tower?

 

[Twister_2]

If you had a digital scanner, would you still be able to pick it up if you were a bit further away from the simulcast tower?

From my location in Dauphin County, I doubt I'd be able to receive any tower further South and East than Manheim, E-town, Litiz, etc. So hopefully they put a tower near E-town and it simulcasts everything!

 

[Subliminal87]

From my location in Dauphin County, I doubt I'd be able to receive any tower further South and East than Manheim, E-town, Litiz, etc. So hopefully they put a tower near E-town and it simulcasts everything!

Oh ok, so if all towers were simulcasting then reception anywhere would be better?

 

[dmg1969]

From my location in Dauphin County, I doubt I'd be able to receive any tower further South and East than Manheim, E-town, Litiz, etc. So hopefully they put a tower near E-town and it simulcasts everything!

Hard to say, but you might. I'm up in Newport, Perry County and I can pick up Lancaster County's Northeast VHF PD channel fairly strong.