Lansing Board of Water and Light - DMR motoTRBO

[mtindor]

and what LCN will the control chnl be, it never seems to come up in LCN Finder?

The control LCN could be any LCN -- you don't want to assume LCN 1. If you weren't aware, for each DMR channel there are two "talkpaths". Two conversations can occur on one frequency. In the case of a Con+ control channel, which is 24/7 constant data on one channel, the other channel is free for voice use. When voice occurs on that second timeslot of the control channel, at that time it will reveal it's LCN. It's probably just going to take time to figure out.

Like I said, you want to monitor during the busiest times, if possible, because then you stand a better chance of LCN Finder finding what it is looking for. If all is said and done and you never determine the LCN of the control channel, you might be able to guess (but don't submit a guess) the LCN based upon what the other LCNs are.

If the system is busy when LCN Finder is running though, it should eventually reveal the LCN once a voice communication occurs on the non-busy timeslot of the control channel frequency.

mike

 

[mtindor]

The DMR Control Chnl, when tuned in says
colour 1
s1/s2 (flashes between the two)
CON

I am assuming this is the control channel anyway. would that be a good guess?

Color 1 is Color Code 1. S1/S2 is just the local timeslots on the frequency you are monitoring.

So what you are seeing revealed are the system type (CONnect Plus) and the Color Code of 1 for that particular frequency.

All of the active freqs may have the color code of 1, or they may all have different.

Mike

 

[mmilbourne]

how do I see the control chnl frequency? I am sure it is right in front of my face.... but I just do not see it

 

[mtindor]

how do I see the control chnl frequency? I am sure it is right in front of my face.... but I just do not see it

That's a good question. Not sure why it doesn't display it. What are you doing when you are monitoring it? Are you using Analyze / Discovery ? Are you stopped on a conventional frequency in a scanlist? It definitely should be showing it.

Mike

 

[mmilbourne]

I was in analyze/system status mode I can not here a typical control chnl noise

 

[mtindor]

I was in analyze/system status mode I can not here a typical control chnl noise

Yes, that's pretty typical -- muting control channel data noise in those modes. Unless you are on a voice channel, it will likely always be muted -- unless perhaps if you had the control channel programmed in conventionally and were sitting on it. But I think that wouldn't work, because I think all Unidens are crippled from a CC search standpoint in conventional mode (unlike a PSR500/600 and PRO-197/106 that will sit on a control channel in conventional mode and spit out all the gory details -- but they don't handle DMR/NXDN).

Really you are just going to need to program all frequencies in conventionally that you aren't already positive are (a) part of DMR or (b) part of the Type II and figure out what belongs where. Then shove all the DMR stuff in LCN Finder and let it run for a few hours and then FUNC-SYS and save the results (unless you get lucky enough that it finds LCNs for all the frequencies and stops on its own before that).

A lot of us are using RTL dongles and DSDPlus to monitor systems. Requires a computer, a dongle or two, some software setup, etc. But in the end it helps to identify a lot of things when those things might not otherwise be determined as quickly by monitoring directly on the scanner.

With that said, the LCN Finder works pretty fine. Populate it with frequencies you know are DMR (or at least know aren't part of the Type II system) and you'd be on your way to finding the gory details.

Mike

mike

 

[mmilbourne]

Are you able to have a done system with LCN’s not starting at 1? Or skipping around?


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[mtindor]

Are you able to have a done system with LCN’s not starting at 1? Or skipping around?


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Sure. There does not have to be consecutive LCNs in use, and if there are consecutive LCNs in use they don't have to be assigned in order of freq.

So you could have six freqs, LCNs 1, 4, 8, 12, 14, 15 and they could be randomly assigned to any of the six frequencies.

If you do run LCN Finder and it seems to find everything. Note all of the freqs and the LCNs it found for those freqs, and then run LCN FInder one more time for good measure and compare. If something differs the second pass, then run LCN Finder one or two more times after that until you have a consistent result.

Mike

 

[mtindor]

For any LCNs that you have confirmed, please cross-check the DB and verify that the DB reflects those changes. If there are any frequencies listed for which you haven't confirmed an LCN, you should ask an admin to either place a note indicating which frequencies do not have a confirmed LCN or ask them to set the LCNs of unconfirmed frequencies to 9x (like 91, 92, 93) to indicate that they are nonconfirmed LCNs.

Otherwise, the casual viewer of the DB who might program that system in will likely think that the LCNs have all been confirmed.

Of course, if you have confirmed them all and the database is correct, don't do anything lol.

Mike

 

[mmilbourne]

I am running the LCN finder currently, it looks to me that only 4 frequencies are part of this system right now. I have confirmed 3/4 LCN’s the are 4,6,7. So I would guess that the missing one is 5. But however I am waiting for my scanner to finish. Than I will submit it to the database.

I have only 3 frequencies for both licenses that are unconfirmed as what system they are located In. No noise on them what so ever. At least the DMR frequencies give off a burst every now and than.

I have submitted changes for the old bwl system to. It is still active, it looks like the board of water and light is using the DMR system and the City ( trash trucks, zoo, snow plows) are using the old type two system.


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[Gadgetmann]

I wanted to chime in here with some information.
There are 4 freqs on the DMR system:
855.3375
857.5375
858.2875
854.3375

I don't know if those are the correct LCN, can you advise?
I don't have the color codes.

You are correct, both systems are active with the BWL on the DMR and Lansing City Services on the old analog system.

Looking over these posts it looks like I need both the LCN and color codes to program this properly?

 

[mmilbourne]

That is correct everything is cc1. And I have confirmed 3/4 LCN’s! I will submit tonight when I get back from work.

Do you know what frequencies are active on the old bwl system?

 

[Gadgetmann]

Ok, and not sure what "everything is cc1"? everything is control channel 1?

Analog system
854.4875
858.5375
857.7625
857.1375

Digital repeater telemetry
856.7625

 

[mmilbourne]

Sorry color code.

 

[Gadgetmann]

ok, thanks

 

[Gadgetmann]

Also, to confirm
is the LCN in the order I listed them?

 

[Gadgetmann]

Update:
I am starting to program my scanner(436) and using the Butel software it has the BWL MotoTRBO system in it, however it is wrong. I shows 5 freqs and there are only 4, it has the telemetry freq of 856.7625 listed.
It also shows LCN but does not show color code.
When I import it, none of the freqs nor the LCN shows up.
I can input those but I need the color code still, correct? If so, what is/are they? thanks

 

[mtindor]

Update:
I am starting to program my scanner(436) and using the Butel software it has the BWL MotoTRBO system in it, however it is wrong. I shows 5 freqs and there are only 4, it has the telemetry freq of 856.7625 listed.
It also shows LCN but does not show color code.
When I import it, none of the freqs nor the LCN shows up.
I can input those but I need the color code still, correct? If so, what is/are they? thanks

If I'm not mistaken, I think he said that all color codes are 1. And he said he knows 3 out of 4 LCNs. Try these

CC 1 854.3375 LCN 4
CC 1 855.3375 LCN ?5?
CC 1 857.5375 LCN 6
CC 1 858.2875 LCN 7

Which one is the active control channel right now? That might be the one he doesn't know the LCN for at present. Anyway, If you program in all four frequencies, as a DMR Trunked System, with a color code of 1, you can then use the BCD436HP feature called "LCN FInder" to attempt to find LCNs.

The LCN Finder will only complete if:

a. the only frequencies you have programmed are ACTIVE frequencies for that system
b. the system is busy enough to cycle through all of the LCNs regularly with VOICE traffic
c. you are willing to wait long enough for LCN Finder to complete

Running LCN Finder at the system's busiest time is recommended.

I think the LCN Finder function was talked about earlier in this thread -- read the thread from the beginning if you need to know more about the LCN Finder.

The database is currently wrong. And it won't be right until somebody determines all of the LCNs and Color Codes and submits them (and i believe mmilbourne said he was going to submit what he knows thus far when he has time to submit it -- then it will have to wait until an admin works the submission. After you see it correct in the database, the imported data should be correct. If you want to program it in before that, you will need to manually massage things.

Mike

 

[mmilbourne]

In the order above it’s 4,?,6,7. I Would guess that the second frequency and there is LCN5 however if you could confirm that that would be awesome

 

[Gadgetmann]

The Butel software shows:

854.3375 LCN1
855.3375 LCN3
856.7625 LCN8(this is the digital repeater telemetry freq)
857.5375 LCN5
858.2875 LCN7

It does not show a LCN 6