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Large TRS - all control freqs Tab D2 P25 Trunking System Setting

Hit_Factor

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I have put together two systems, Michigan and Indiana, for a start.

Each System is listed in a CSV file that may be imported into Unication PPS, I'm using version 3.16.9 at this time.

When you import the file, there is a display anomaly on my computer, I click select all and then OK. Enter the WACN ID(HEX) and SYSTEM ID(HEX) and that should do it.

When I click on the site list field PPS throws an error, but everything seems to be working OK.

To create the list I removed all of the non-control & non-alternate freqs from the RR DB download. Then removed all of the duplicates. On especially large systems, it might be necessary to remove the alternate freqs.

If you have create a similar file for a TRS You can send me the CSV and I'll post it. Start a conversation (private message) with me and I'll give you my email address.

 

wa8pyr

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I have put together two systems, Michigan and Indiana, for a start.

Each System is listed in a CSV file that may be imported into Unication PPS, I'm using version 3.16.9 at this time.

Interesting. Have you tried the files in the pager and how fast was it at locating active control channels? Did it keep the nearby active sites in memory to speed up returning to them, or does it check all CC frequencies on every pass, thus potentially slowing site acquisition?

I also note that there's only one site NAC in there. How would you deal with a system (such as Ohio MARCS) where each site has a different NAC?
 

sparklehorse

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I tried this with our statewide system a while back. The concept is good, but in practice it didn't work very well. The problem is that the pager doesn't have GPS, so it has no idea where it is located relative to the trunk system sites at any given time. When you turn the radio on, it will lock on to the first site it gets a signal on that is above a certain bit error/signal strength threshold. That site may or may not be the best one for your current location. Then as you travel, it will hold on to that site until the signal degrades to a certain threshold. That threshold is a very low bar. You'll suffer quite a long period of digital garble before the radio finally decides maybe it should look for a better control channel. When it does finally look for a new site you're back to square one, i.e. it may or may not find the best site for your new location. And on it goes. Now if Unication one day comes out with a new model that adds GPS capability, well, I'll be in line for that one toot sweet.
 

trido

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Thanks for this going to try it for safet

Well after import and changed wacn and sys been over 5 min and has not found any CC?
Are we sure the two FF settings are getting pager cant check them cause of error?

zJeff
I have put together two systems, Michigan and Indiana, for a start.

Each System is listed in a CSV file that may be imported into Unication PPS, I'm using version 3.16.9 at this time.

When you import the file, there is a display anomaly on my computer, I click select all and then OK. Enter the WACN ID(HEX) and SYSTEM ID(HEX) and that should do it.

When I click on the site list field PPS throws an error, but everything seems to be working OK.

To create the list I removed all of the non-control & non-alternate freqs from the RR DB download. Then removed all of the duplicates. On especially large systems, it might be necessary to remove the alternate freqs.

If you have create a similar file for a TRS You can send me the CSV and I'll post it. Start a conversation (private message) with me and I'll give you my email address.

 
Last edited:

Hit_Factor

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I tried this with our statewide system a while back. The concept is good, but in practice it didn't work very well. The problem is that the pager doesn't have GPS, so it has no idea where it is located relative to the trunk system sites at any given time. When you turn the radio on, it will lock on to the first site it gets a signal on that is above a certain bit error/signal strength threshold. That site may or may not be the best one for your current location. Then as you travel, it will hold on to that site until the signal degrades to a certain threshold. That threshold is a very low bar. You'll suffer quite a long period of digital garble before the radio finally decides maybe it should look for a better control channel. When it does finally look for a new site you're back to square one, i.e. it may or may not find the best site for your new location. And on it goes. Now if Unication one day comes out with a new model that adds GPS capability, well, I'll be in line for that one toot sweet.
I have a couple of these setup for I-94 across Michigan and I-69. I really didn't notice any problems on the smaller scale attempts. I think switching knob positions back and forth would force a new search if necessary.

There are a lot of variables in the systems. Comparing Michigan to Indiana it seems that Michigan has smaller (as in footprint) sites compared to Indiana. If it works, great, if it doesn't, nothing lost.
 

Hit_Factor

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Interesting. Have you tried the files in the pager and how fast was it at locating active control channels? Did it keep the nearby active sites in memory to speed up returning to them, or does it check all CC frequencies on every pass, thus potentially slowing site acquisition?

I also note that there's only one site NAC in there. How would you deal with a system (such as Ohio MARCS) where each site has a different NAC?
It seemed to find the site quick enough, it might have been a little slower, I have not timed it. Definitely acquired in seconds, not minutes.

Michigan sites have NAC and I don't think the pager cares about NAC.
 

sparklehorse

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I have a couple of these setup for I-94 across Michigan and I-69. I really didn't notice any problems on the smaller scale attempts. I think switching knob positions back and forth would force a new search if necessary.

There are a lot of variables in the systems. Comparing Michigan to Indiana it seems that Michigan has smaller (as in footprint) sites compared to Indiana. If it works, great, if it doesn't, nothing lost.
Right. Well terrain may make a difference with this programming approach. The area I was traveling when I tried the multi-site approach was hilly to downright mountainous. So sites can go in and out of range very quickly as you travel. Flatter terrain might work better.
.
 

trido

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two of us no luck with safet file.no cc lock.

Thanks for this going to try it for safet

Well after import and changed wacn and sys been over 5 min and has not found any CC?
Are we sure the two FF settings are getting pager cant check them cause of error?

zJeff
 

Hit_Factor

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two of us no luck with safet file.no cc lock.
That's too bad, I have been close enough to Indiana to give that file a try. You can open the CSV and see the FF is correct, but there could be something else in the file you might notice.

If nothing else you have a couple freq ranges you can try in full spectrum scan.
 

wa8pyr

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I tried this with our statewide system a while back. The concept is good, but in practice it didn't work very well. The problem is that the pager doesn't have GPS, so it has no idea where it is located relative to the trunk system sites at any given time. When you turn the radio on, it will lock on to the first site it gets a signal on that is above a certain bit error/signal strength threshold. That site may or may not be the best one for your current location. Then as you travel, it will hold on to that site until the signal degrades to a certain threshold. That threshold is a very low bar. You'll suffer quite a long period of digital garble before the radio finally decides maybe it should look for a better control channel. When it does finally look for a new site you're back to square one, i.e. it may or may not find the best site for your new location. And on it goes. Now if Unication one day comes out with a new model that adds GPS capability, well, I'll be in line for that one toot sweet.
Real radios on the system(s) often don't have GPS either, and even if they do it's not used for site acquisition. On power-up they look at their pre-programmed list of control channels and grab the first good one they come to; from there they'll look at the list of adjacent sites being sent out over the CC by the site they're affiliated to and will check the neighbors for a better site. All this generally only takes a few seconds.

Once a good site has been affiliated to, the radio will keep in memory a list of the current and adjacent sites; this list is refreshed regularly as the radio moves from site to site.

Ideally, the Unication pager (and scanners) would work the same way.

Full spectrum scan might be a better (easier) way to get the same results.
Unfortunately full spectrum scan takes a really long time compared to a pre-programmed list of control channels. I generally tweak my CC list so that the sites closest to home are shown at the top of the list.
 

JASII

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...Unfortunately full spectrum scan takes a really long time compared to a pre-programmed list of control channels. I generally tweak my CC list so that the sites closest to home are shown at the top of the list.

That makes sense. I guess the bottom line is:

Program Them In, If You Can,

If Not, Use Full Spectrum Scan.
 

wa8pyr

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That makes sense. I guess the bottom line is:

Program them in if you can, if not use full spectrum scan.
Only time Full Spectrum Scan comes into play is when the radio cannot locate an active control channel from the pre-programmed list. This might be when there's only a limited list due to (for example) size limitations; certain radios only have capacity for 128 control channels in the CC list, but some systems have many more than that.
 

Hit_Factor

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two of us no luck with safet file.no cc lock.
I think the file rounded off some frequencies. I found if I set both RFSS ID and Sited ID to 1, I could import without an error.

I'll see what I can do about the rounding.
 
Last edited:

trido

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my closest CC is 853.5500 think it imported OK.

Jeff
I think the file rounded off some frequencies. I found if I set both RFSS ID and Sited ID to 1, I could import without an error.

I'll see what I can do about the rounding.
 

wa8pyr

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I was wondering about that, too. Which ones only have capacity for 128 channels?
XTS/XTL for sure, I think there are others as well. APX series, Harris XG/XL series and Tait radios can handle up to 255, give or take a few.
 
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