Las Vegas Area wildfire channels 2020

[zerg901]

different from RRDB

"CCFD 8 Gass" - 158.97 R - 154.74 input - PL 131.8 in and out - also Local / Direct on 158.97 simplex with PL 131.8 TX and RX - this is Clark County Fire Channel 8 at Gass site

"CCFD 7" - 154.34 R - 153.77 in - PL 103.5 in and out on Potosi Mtn - PL 162.2 in and out on Virgin Mtn

CCFD 7 Local - non repeater / direct - simplex on 154.34 - PL 103.5 near Potosi Mtn - PL 162.2 near Virgin Mtn

Las Vegas BLM - 173.05 R - PL 114.8 - 164.475 input - sites at Hayford, Virgin, Xmas, Potosi, Wilson AZ, West Mtn, Split Ridge

Las Vegas BLM at Red Rock - 172.525 R - 166.2375 input - PL is 114.8 in and out

USFS - 172.275 R - 164.50 input - sites at Angel, Charles, and Potosi

USFS SOA - 168.775 - PL 0.0

NV BLM SOA - 171.675 - PL 114.8 TX and RX

Law Enforcement (LE) at Hayford site - 170.60 R - NAC 388

LE at Boulder Beach - 170.05 R - 167.15 in - ? NPS ?

SNDO Stratus - 171.675 R - NAC 47C

LE - Central - 170.60 R - NAC 3E8 - sites at Red Rock and Potosi

 

[bryan_herbert]

Like I said in the other thread, A LOT of changes this year. Not just to NDF, but also to BLM and NPS... among other departments.

 

[Paysonscanner]

different from RRDB

"CCFD 8 Gass" - 158.97 R - 154.74 input - PL 131.8 in and out - also Local / Direct on 158.97 simplex with PL 131.8 TX and RX - this is Clark County Fire Channel 8 at Gass site

"CCFD 7" - 154.34 R - 153.77 in - PL 103.5 in and out on Potosi Mtn - PL 162.2 in and out on Virgin Mtn

CCFD 7 Local - non repeater / direct - simplex on 154.34 - PL 103.5 near Potosi Mtn - PL 162.2 near Virgin Mtn

Las Vegas BLM - 173.05 R - PL 114.8 - 164.475 input - sites at Hayford, Virgin, Xmas, Potosi, Wilson AZ, West Mtn, Split Ridge

Las Vegas BLM at Red Rock - 172.525 R - 166.2375 input - PL is 114.8 in and out

USFS - 172.275 R - 164.50 input - sites at Angel, Charles, and Potosi

USFS SOA - 168.775 - PL 0.0

NV BLM SOA - 171.675 - PL 114.8 TX and RX

Law Enforcement (LE) at Hayford site - 170.60 R - NAC 388

LE at Boulder Beach - 170.05 R - 167.15 in - ? NPS ?

SNDO Stratus - 171.675 R - NAC 47C

LE - Central - 170.60 R - NAC 3E8 - sites at Red Rock and Potosi

Hey Zerg! There is no way to PM you on RR, you have chosen to block that out. So I will ask the question here, what is your source for this information? You can PM me if you prefer.

Some comments, the last information I got was that the Southern Nevada (used to be Las Vegas) District of BLM was on 173.7625, with the same input you list. The Split Ridge repeater is new and looks like it is on the Nevada Test Site. Curious! I wonder why they would change to 173.0500 so soon? The 173.7625 freq complies with the 2019 VHF High allocation. I wonder if they found some interference of some type.

Just to be current and correct it is the BLM Southern Nevada District, Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area, a congressional designation. They have been on 172.5250 for several years.

Glad to apparently confirm that the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest, Spring Mountain National Recreation Area, is on 172.2750. Someone had posted that on a Nevada thread last fall or so. The HTF does not put tones on their repeater outputs. I think the HTF-Santa Rosa Ranger District, north of Winnemucca is on this freq as well. The HTF secondary repeater/one time phone patch, on Leviathan Peak overlooking eastern Alpine County, CA is also on 172.2750.

The law enforcement network for the BLM S. Nevada District is new. About 10 years ago I went through Las Vegas about once per year and we monitored what seemed like an interagency (NPS-BLM-USFS-possibly USFWS) law enforcement net on 172.6000. I don't go through Las Vegas much anymore. I had a friend there for many years, but not anymore.

"SNDO Stratus" is interesting. This is the Nevada BLM scene of action frequency. It has a portable repeater capability according to the info I have, which is a few years old. Also, does "SNDO" stand for "Southern Nevada District Office?" What does "Stratus" refer to, a peak? I can't find a topo feature with this name in the state.

I think you are Radio Reference's master of Google searches and finding information in obscure places. I would love to see what your source of this info is.

 

[silverspy]

I believe that the BLM Southern Nevada frequency was changed from 173.7625, because this is a known USFS frequency and is in use in multiple forests in several Western states. They must have realized this after they first allocated the frequency for BLM use, then changed it, at least this is my theory. I have noticed that about ninety eight percent of the time there are a dedicated pool of frequencies for BLM/Dept of Interior, and a dedicated pool for USFS, with not much deviation from this scheme. I have noticed several instances of “crossover” of frequency use between USFS and BLM/Interior, however I would say from my observations, this is a rare scenario.

 

[silverspy]

While we’re on this subject, and this is primarily directed at Paysonscanner. Regarding our prior conversations in other threads regarding this, I’ve been able to confirm in the past year, the following regarding the H-T, which in a nutshell is:
173.775 Carson,Austin,Tonopah RD’s
170.525 Bridgeport, Santa Rosa RD’s
172.275 Spring Mountains NRA and Leviathan Pk
169.900 Ely,Mountain City-Jarbidge, Ruby Mtns RD’s.

 

[Paysonscanner]

I believe that the BLM Southern Nevada frequency was changed from 173.7625, because this is a known USFS frequency and is in use in multiple forests in several Western states. They must have realized this after they first allocated the frequency for BLM use, then changed it, at least this is my theory. I have noticed that about ninety eight percent of the time there are a dedicated pool of frequencies for BLM/Dept of Interior, and a dedicated pool for USFS, with not much deviation from this scheme. I have noticed several instances of “crossover” of frequency use between USFS and BLM/Interior, however I would say from my observations, this is a rare scenario.

I agree with what you say about BLM vis a vis USFS frequencies. This is because the NTIA allocates frequencies based on "Departments," those entities that have a secretary who is part of the "Cabinet." The USFS is in the Department of Agriculture and the BLM, NPS, USFWS and BIA are in the Department of the Interior. Those agencies do a good job of integrating their radio systems, example the NIFC cache. They use each others frequencies for national use, such as 168.6250 (Air Guard), 168.6500 (Flight Following) and the National Air to Air/Air to Ground 5 frequency pool. 168.5500 used to be called "BLM Air Net" and was replaced by Air Guard so that every agency's aircraft was guarding the same frequency. Since 168.5500 had national authorization it is now an exclusive assignment for smokejumpers (BLM and USFS) air to ground and for helicopter rappel/cargo net air to ground, with Pl of 123.0 for the smokejumpers and 110.9 for the helos.

I didn't know that 173.7625 was a USFS frequency.

While we’re on this subject, and this is primarily directed at Paysonscanner. Regarding our prior conversations in other threads regarding this, I’ve been able to confirm in the past year, the following regarding the H-T, which in a nutshell is:
173.775 Carson,Austin,Tonopah RD’s
170.525 Bridgeport, Santa Rosa RD’s
172.275 Spring Mountains NRA and Leviathan Pk
169.900 Ely,Mountain City-Jarbidge, Ruby Mtns RD’s.

Thanks for this! This straightens out lots of questions I had. The Humboldt-Toiyabe's Leviathan repeater has been a mystery. When late Hubby and I backpacked the Carson-Iceberg Wilderness we always had its freq in our scanners, but never heard anything. Some old information said it was used for a phone patch. We always wondered it this was for the Soda Springs Guard Station, the only administrative structure in the this wilderness. I have an old listing (2016) for all the radio groups of the HTF and one titled "Markleeville" has this in channel 1. I'm wondering if when there is a lightning storm with Markleeville getting a lot of new fires, if they just switch to that repeater. I don't know if I will ever get back there to monitor the HTF. I'm pleased to get confirmation on the Austin/Tonopah Districts as well as the remainder of the Humboldt districts. I want to make a trip to Great Basin NP and do some backpacking.

The times I've been in Las Vegas to visit a friend the so called "BLM LE Net" was being used by the USFS, BLM and USFWS. The Lake Mead NRA was the dispatch center for all the agencies. I have 170.0500 listed as "Lake Mead NRA Rangers" from something Hubby picked up about this NPS unit. I don't know what the new admin freq for the NRA is, the old one being the very common NPS net of 166.300 out/ 166.900 in. That has to change due to the 2019 NTIA reallocation, but the NPS is not on time with their changes. I show a frequency of 172.6000 as Lake Mead operations, so maybe that is the new admin net. I also show LE tacs of 167.1250 and 172.4625. The second is not compliant with the 2019 allocation for a tac.

A lot of people don't know, but the Lake Mead National Recreation Area is one of the busiest NPS unit in the country. Great Smokey Mountains National Park has the most visits for the national park designation. However, when looking at all types of NPS classifications Lake Mead surpasses it and the Golden Gate NRA has the highest visitation. Lake Mead has some interesting characteristics that make it about the most difficult unit for their "Visitor and Resource Protection Division." Tons of boating accidents, search and rescue, boat fires, beach use and . . . . My Las Vegas retired nurse friend and college classmate was married to a Lake Mead protection ranger and the stories! Hubby and I learned a lot about the NPS from him. They have since moved, after he retired, and they are as far from the desert as they could find! Now I have no reason to visit this city.

I noticed that the BLM net changed output frequencies, but the input remained the same.

 

[Paysonscanner]

Late Hubby or I picked this info up from an official source, an Annual Operations Plan for a mutual aid agreement or similar. I can't find it right now. In addition to the 171.6750 "Scene of Action," there are 3 BLM Nevada tacticals now.

BLM NV Tac 1 169.4375 Digital Mode
BLM NV Tac 2 164.4750
BLM NV Tac 3 172.7500

Only Tac 1 is in the simplex range of the 2019 NTIA assignments so I wonder if these have been changed.

 

[silverspy]

It does seem odd that a year and a half after the deadline for the”2019 compliant” frequency changes, that so many Dept of Interior frequency pairs are still not in “compliance”. When traveling through the California Desert this last winter, I was able to confirm that the BLM, California Desert District Admin Net is still on the old original pair of 166.375/166.975, which is technically not “compliant” with the NTIA guidelines. Another example for you is the BLM in Idaho and Wyoming. There are quite a few districts in those states where the frequencies also do not fit in with the 2019 compliance guidelines. I remember reading part of the Redbook a few years ago, that stated something like, exceptions could be made to the new 2019 NTIA compliance guidelines, if it could be proven to the NTIA that the exception expressed a more efficient use of the spectrum.

 

[Paysonscanner]

It does seem odd that a year and a half after the deadline for the”2019 compliant” frequency changes, that so many Dept of Interior frequency pairs are still not in “compliance”. When traveling through the California Desert this last winter, I was able to confirm that the BLM, California Desert District Admin Net is still on the old original pair of 166.375/166.975, which is technically not “compliant” with the NTIA guidelines. Another example for you is the BLM in Idaho and Wyoming. There are quite a few districts in those states where the frequencies also do not fit in with the 2019 compliance guidelines. I remember reading part of the Redbook a few years ago, that stated something like, exceptions could be made to the new 2019 NTIA compliance guidelines, if it could be proven to the NTIA that the exception expressed a more efficient use of the spectrum.

I think a lot of agencies are getting variances, but not permanent exceptions. The National Park Service is changing over to digital a lot. When they change to the new allocation they nearly replace all the old system. They are also building new systems where a park has multiple repeater pairs, one for each repeater site and the signal from any one repeater is carried by all the other repeaters. One good example of this is Joshua Tree National Park. It's neat to drive along I-10 and hear everything going on in the park. These multicast systems allow everyone in the park to hear all traffic no matter what repeater they can hear. This is great, but in some areas they may not have enough frequencies. NIFC has enough that they might put up 2-6 repeaters on a fire for command then link them all via UHF and have every repeater carry the traffic of any one of the repeaters on the fire. Before doing this someone like the incident commander or the operations section chief had to fly the fire in order to work all the command repeaters, because each one only carried the traffic of one portion of the fire. The NIFC comm setup is very good and the ability to have a command net up and running in a short period of time is impressive.

EDIT* I think funding doesn't allow them to build the new systems they need. The NTIA probably considers this. The other agencies are not making as significant change as the NPS. Their funding right now is inadequate and there are fewer protection rangers than there were 20 years ago. Guess what? The visitor numbers have increased and a couple of dozen new units have been established in those years. Parks with lots of rangers have to give up positions to cover the newer units. The budget and numbers of employees does not reflect these changes.

 

[silverspy]

I wanted to also mention to you that you are correct about the HTF Leviathan repeater. They have something called the “Markleeville lightning plan” which goes into effect when there are multiple lightning strikes and fires in the Markleeville area, and they do switch over to Leviathan Peak for operations, which frees up Hawkins Peak for continued use in the area. I’ve heard secondary dispatching being done out of the Markleeville Guard Station, when the lightning plan is in effect. Most of the fires on the Carson Ranger District occur on the Southern part of the District, where the bulk of the “big timber” on the District is. Also, Leviathan covers areas that Hawkins does not, such as, the Carson Iceberg Wilderness, the Ebbetts Pass area of the Sierra Nevada, and areas to the East, such as Topaz Lake, and BLM lands between Gardnerville and Topaz Lake, primarily the Southern part of the Pine Nut Mountains. The placement of a repeater on Jobs Peak in 2018 has helped fill in the gaps, though, in the Markleeville area, in which there were many dead zones prior.

 

[Paysonscanner]

I wanted to also mention to you that you are correct about the HTF Leviathan repeater. They have something called the “Markleeville lightning plan” which goes into effect when there are multiple lightning strikes and fires in the Markleeville area, and they do switch over to Leviathan Peak for operations, which frees up Hawkins Peak for continued use in the area. I’ve heard secondary dispatching being done out of the Markleeville Guard Station, when the lightning plan is in effect. Most of the fires on the Carson Ranger District occur on the Southern part of the District, where the bulk of the “big timber” on the District is. Also, Leviathan covers areas that Hawkins does not, such as, the Carson Iceberg Wilderness, the Ebbetts Pass area of the Sierra Nevada, and areas to the East, such as Topaz Lake, and BLM lands between Gardnerville and Topaz Lake, primarily the Southern part of the Pine Nut Mountains. The placement of a repeater on Jobs Peak in 2018 has helped fill in the gaps, though, in the Markleeville area, in which there were many dead zones prior.

Great local information! Do you have the tone for the new Jobs Peak repeater? Most of my interest in areas like this is rooted in trying to recall the happy time of my life married to my husband (Hubby and Sweetie were his other names). Oh boy, did we travel and it was almost always to remote rural areas of the west. I was backpacking when I was 5 as my Daddy had that wanderlust for the remote. We always had radios with us on our packs. So my interest in the HTF system helps me remember hiking in the Carson-Iceberg and Hoover Wilderness areas. It was just over "the hill" for us living in the western foothills of the Sierra Nevada.

 

[Paysonscanner]

Markleeville is cute! Late Hubby and I have stayed in town. We ran the Carson River once, all the way down close to U.S. 395. There is the remnants of a dam there so you have to do a take out before the highway. The little guard station there is like an old time, one horse, one ranger, ranger station. I love small towns and Markleeville is a good one. Alpine County has the smallest population of any CA county. I think about half of it is around Bear Valley, otherwise the population would really be low.

 

[silverspy]

Jobs is Tone 5 (146.2)

 

[zerg901]

2020 info shows same freqs for BLM Tacs as above in Post 7

Tac 1 - 169.4375 - NAC 47C
Tac 2 - 164.475 - PL 114.8
Tac 3 - 172.75 - PL 114.8

freqs and PLs and NAC appear to be statewide (are listed this way in both the Southern Nevada zone/bank and the Carson City zone/bank)

 

[zerg901]

re Post 8 re CA BLM

the 2020 info shows the CA CDD zone/bank as -

166.375 R - 166.975 in - sites at Tourquoise + Calico + Christmas Tree + Old Woman's + Government + Bird Springs

Mohave NP - 169.9875 R

BLM SOA - 168.30 - PL 0.0

Tac 1 - 168.85

Tac 2 - 168.20

Tac 7 - 168.35 - mobiles TX PL 100.0

A/G 59 - 169.1125

A/G 53 - 168.4875

Cal A/G 4 - 151.22

 

[Paysonscanner]

I wanted to also mention to you that you are correct about the HTF Leviathan repeater. They have something called the “Markleeville lightning plan” which goes into effect when there are multiple lightning strikes and fires in the Markleeville area, and they do switch over to Leviathan Peak for operations, which frees up Hawkins Peak for continued use in the area. I’ve heard secondary dispatching being done out of the Markleeville Guard Station, when the lightning plan is in effect. Most of the fires on the Carson Ranger District occur on the Southern part of the District, where the bulk of the “big timber” on the District is. Also, Leviathan covers areas that Hawkins does not, such as, the Carson Iceberg Wilderness, the Ebbetts Pass area of the Sierra Nevada, and areas to the East, such as Topaz Lake, and BLM lands between Gardnerville and Topaz Lake, primarily the Southern part of the Pine Nut Mountains. The placement of a repeater on Jobs Peak in 2018 has helped fill in the gaps, though, in the Markleeville area, in which there were many dead zones prior.

I have a 2016 list of the radio frequency groups for the HTF. This was right in front of me all this time and I just noticed it. They have a zone (group) called "Markleeville Lightning." Channel 1 in that group is the Leviathan repeater. The answer was right in front of late Hubby and I 4 years ago, but we didn't notice. Duh!

Jobs is Tone 5 (146.2)

Thanks for this. I'm not at home right now after making a late night trip to Phoenix due to putting my Daddy in the hospital. One of my brothers took long trip around to Payson, via Camp Verde, to make sure the house was OK for a longer time than I expected to be gone. A big fire has the usual and shorter route closed. He was nice and brought me all of my natural resource radio info notebooks for USFS R3 and R4. When I went to list Jobs Peak (not named after the Apple founder, but the patient man in the Bible so watch your pronunciation!) repeater on the 2016 channel plan I noticed that in that Markleeville group they have the Carson RD net in Channel 5, that is when it caught my attention that the group had the name of "MKLV LTNG." Both late Hubby and I debated the use of that repeater so many times. We didn't keep this close of attention to other radio nets, except for those in the Sierra where we backpacked.

 

[Paysonscanner]

re Post 8 re CA BLM

the 2020 info shows the CA CDD zone/bank as -

166.375 R - 166.975 in - sites at Tourquoise + Calico + Christmas Tree + Old Woman's + Government + Bird Springs

Mohave NP - 169.9875 R

BLM SOA - 168.30 - PL 0.0

Tac 1 - 168.85

Tac 2 - 168.20

Tac 7 - 168.35 - mobiles TX PL 100.0

A/G 59 - 169.1125

A/G 53 - 168.4875

Cal A/G 4 - 151.22

I discovered a source with 2 tacs for BLM California, all 3 districts about a year ago. I don't think what is shown as Tac 2 matched what I found. 168.2000 is NIFC Tac 2 and it is supposed to be reserved for Type I and Type II incidents only, not to be used locally for initial attack. My source is probably right in front of my nose in a notebook, but I'm not home right now and my Calif. notebook is there. Tac 7 is just one of the old federal government wide commons. It is nice to have a 2020 confirmation that BLM CDD is still using the old 166.3750 pair. I have a 2020 R5 Frequency Guide, but it has a big error for the Central California District and so I didn't totally trust its listing for the CDD also.

I would sure love to have the sources you have! I look in some obscure places for things, but you are the master. Please, please, PM me and share your sources, pretty please!

 

[ecps92]

It is all in how you GOOGLE for them
hint: sometimes search 166.375 vs 166.3750

I discovered a source with 2 tacs for BLM California, all 3 districts about a year ago. I don't think what is shown as Tac 2 matched what I found. 168.2000 is NIFC Tac 2 and it is supposed to be reserved for Type I and Type II incidents only, not to be used locally for initial attack. My source is probably right in front of my nose in a notebook, but I'm not home right now and my Calif. notebook is there. Tac 7 is just one of the old federal government wide commons. It is nice to have a 2020 confirmation that BLM CDD is still using the old 166.3750 pair. I have a 2020 R5 Frequency Guide, but it has a big error for the Central California District and so I didn't totally trust its listing for the CDD also.

I would sure love to have the sources you have! I look in some obscure places for things, but you are the master. Please, please, PM me and share your sources, pretty please!

 

[silverspy]

My source is just basically many hours of listening and gathering intelligence. I don’t have any official sources on the “inside”. I was able to determine the new frequency for the Carson Ranger District on the
day it was changed, 15th of October, 2018, by just monitoring traffic and searching. I’ve always known about Leviathan. I made a trip to Minden Dispatch about 25 years ago, and was given a frequency list by one of the dispatchers, in these days, that would never happen. I’ve also toured Elko Interagency and Central Nevada in Winnemucca years ago. In this post 9-11 world, sadly, those are now all secure facilities. I feel it is sad that things have come to this; because I am one of the biggest fans of the wildland firefighters, but I do understand the need for secrecy, to a certain extent. I remember back in the days when my radio hobby started, over 25 years ago, there used to be HTF Secondary(Admin) Nets on both Leviathan and Peavine, now the secondary net on Peavine is gone, as far as I know, as well as the phone patches. The phone patches were put in pre cell era. The HTF has a very complicated radio system that is now RoiP, like much of Region 4. The traffic is piggybacked on the Nevada state microwave system, or at least it used to be, and the internal phone lines for the Forest are also carried over this network, thus saving long distance charges. I was extremely fortunate to have picked up a lot of what I know from guys like Robert Kelty, Fred Richter and others who taught me the art of radio and monitoring.

“the task of intelligence is never complete”
the late Robert Kelty.

 

[silverspy]

I can also confirm for you that the BLM, CDD is still using the old pair. I was down there this last Winter, and copied traffic on 166.375, south of Las Vegas.