Laws for travelling in NY State with a scanner?

[knob179]

Could anyone advise me on the law for travelling in NYS with a scanner or ham portable? Is there a problem?

 

[Al42]

Ham equipment? Falls under federal law, even if it can receive police frequencies.

Scanner? Keep it in the trunk, unless you want to argue - in court - that it falls under the ham exemption to section 397 of the state Vehicle and Traffic Law. http://maxpages.com/frequencies/NYC_Laws

 

[Videokid]

There seems to be some confusion as to what constitutes a "scanner".

http://www.eham.net/articles/5651

I wonder what the outcome of that case was.

 

[knob179]

Good information, thanks. I will just leave the radio at home.

 

[jpm]

I always bring my scanners with me on vacation. there isn't a scanner copper out there looking for one using a scanner, your the one that would cause a scanner cop to harrass you about a scanner, ie; speeding or doing something stupid to catch a coppers eye. ENJOY

 

[knob179]

My other concern is crossing the US / Canada border. Is Customs getting to be a problem as well?

 

[LordJ]

When you cross the border it is always a good idea to go in and get a customs declaration. That is simply a form that says you crossed the border with that item and didn't buy it while you were there. Not a bad idea for something of value. I have done this with radios cameras and such. Not sure if they will give you a problem now (post 9/11) but I had no problem before. If they ask, just make sure you put it in the trunk when you take off, then take it out when you feel comfortable.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Could anyone advise me on the law for travelling in NYS with a scanner or ham portable? Is there a problem?

Yes, there is a problem, especially in certain towns. The police are not fully aware of the meaning of the statute about mobile receivers, and ham operators are still being stopped and charged despite the exemption.

Remember, even if your mobile radio station is completely and explicitly exempted by the FCC declaration of jurisdiction, you will still have to go to court and prove it to the judge, then institute a civil action to recover your confiscated equipment because a criminal court cannot issue such an order.

The enforcement of the mobile scanner provisions of New York's Vehicle and Traffic Law does not operate on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty." If charged, you must go to court and prove that you should not have been arrested in the first place.

For more details, visit http://nf2g.com

 

[jpm]

But if there isn't a reason for deputy dog to see that one has a scanner one could go undetected. I have had my scanner, the 780xlt hooked up for cb chan 19 when i travel to florida. i stay at the speed limit, again not making it a issue for barney to pull me down. also when i'm in florida the same but mobile handheld. no big deal and still here to tell one of this experience. DON"T WORRY BE HAPPY.

 

[Al42]

Good information, thanks. I will just leave the radio at home.

I'm currently on vacation a few hundred miles from home. While driving from Long Island to northern Virginia, I had the Pro-95 running all the time. Of course I listen to it on a bluetooth headset, so any police officer in NY who saw me probably thought about how i was in compliance with NY's handsfree cellphone law, not how I was violating the scanner law. But I always have the scanner sitting between the front seats when I'm on a trip - I like to know what's going on around me.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Yeah, police officers are always focused on how people are not committing crimes. :roll:

 

[kb5udf]

Legal eagles have at this

I just read the statute in question. While I am NO attorney, it appears
flawed. The text stated something about frequencies "exclusively allocated" to the amateur service. Problem is, hams have privledges in lots of bands that are not exclusively allocated, such as 420-450, 902-928,
2.4 ghz...etc... To my layman's eyes, the portion of this law dealing with
hams bans ham mobile operation in these bands, as they are not exclusive allocations to the amateur service. This ill-conceived (imho) law also mentions something about duly liscensed ham transmitters, of which there is no such thing. Ham operators are liscensed, not their gear. While I realize the historical origins of this in commercial/public safety service, they don't apply to ham gear.

Anyhow I hope someone with a real legal education can take up this matter, ARRL, where are you.

 

[Al42]

Yeah, police officers are always focused on how people are not committing crimes. :roll:

I don't know how it is upstate, but on Long Island you can see someone holding a cellphone to his/her ear about once/mile. It's a lot more common than seeing someone wearing a headset of any kind.

 

[Al42]

Re: Legal eagles have at this

This ill-conceived (imho) law also mentions something about duly liscensed ham transmitters, of which there is no such thing. Ham operators are liscensed, not their gear.

Check your license again - it's both an operator and a station license. The station (transmitter, receiver, etc.) is licensed.

But you're right - most laws dealing with technical issues are fatally flawed. The NY cellphone law specifically bans holding a device connected to the PSTN to your ear while driving. That exempts Nextel users who are talking to other Nextel users without using the speaker. I doubt that's what they had in mind.

 

[kb5udf]

My Station

Guess I always conceived of my 'station' in a more conceptual fashion, basically the control point. My station on the liscence is a fixed place of residence. But I operate wherever I am, and with whatever equipment I choose, so it's hard to see how the gear is itself liscensed.

In any event, a look at a current ham radio catalog, showed, NO 2 meter or 440mhz transceivers that were not capable of receiving "police" frequencies straight out of the box. Even all business band vhf or uhf are, as the statute seems to state 'capable' of doing so, even if not explicitly programmed as such.

Anyway, glad I don't reside in or travel through NY, and I hope you guys are able to reclaim your rights.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Re: Legal eagles have at this

Anyhow I hope someone with a real legal education can take up this matter, ARRL, where are you.

Done, but not by ARRL. In fact, their legal counsel has expressed his lack of interest in seeing what anyone else has to say about the matter.

Go to NF2G.com - there is an article available there that examines the NYS laws in depth.

DISCLOSURE: It's my website and I wrote the article. :wink:

 

[K2KOH]

Could anyone advise me on the law for travelling in NYS with a scanner or ham portable? Is there a problem?

Yes, there is a problem, especially in certain towns. The police are not fully aware of the meaning of the statute about mobile receivers, and ham operators are still being stopped and charged despite the exemption.

Remember, even if your mobile radio station is completely and explicitly exempted by the FCC declaration of jurisdiction, you will still have to go to court and prove it to the judge, then institute a civil action to recover your confiscated equipment because a criminal court cannot issue such an order.

The enforcement of the mobile scanner provisions of New York's Vehicle and Traffic Law does not operate on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty." If charged, you must go to court and prove that you should not have been arrested in the first place.

For more details, visit http://nf2g.com

Why do you have to start a civil action to get the radio back? It's supposed to be vouchered by the arresting agency, and if found not to be contraband, which it would have to be if you're cleared, would have to be returned to the owner. When it's vouchered, you have to get a property receipt.

 

[DaveNF2G]

If the police department or local D.A. declines to return the item (which they do if they consider it "forfeited" or just want to be pricks because they lost in court - or because they don't understand civil procedure any better than they understand the V&T), then a court order is needed to force them to give it back.

The court that drops the Section 397 charge is a criminal court and lacks equity jurisdiction, so the judge has no authority to issue civil orders to return property.

The upshot is, if the police or prosecutor won't return your radio upon request, then you have to sue them to get it back. And, by the way, you can't take them to Small Claims Court because that court cannot issue injunctions. It has to be a "real" lawsuit in a regular civil court.

 

[Al42]

Why do you have to start a civil action to get the radio back? It's supposed to be vouchered by the arresting agency

Tell that to the cop who issues the summons. (He's the "arresting agency".) And if he later claims that he never confiscated your radio, it's your word against his.

If you see that you're going to have your radio confiscated, requesting that a superior officer respond might at least keep the arresting officer honest.

 

[dhutsell]

If your a HAM federal law overides any state law. You are exempt and may listen to police traffic you want. I recomend you carry a copy of the federal law as well as a copy of your HAM license to show the officer.