legal question on use of scanner

MUTNAV

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Wouldn’t EAM’s be encoded as opposed to encrypted?
I think there is a difference between encoding and encrypting, when a HAM changes what he wants to say into Morse code, the message is being encoded, if it is encrypted then the meaning is intentionally obscured with a cypher, then its encryption.

(I had to italicize "intentionally", because some people talk like they had one to many, and can't be deciphered with anything).

:)
Thanks
Joel
 

DVINTHEHOUSEMAN

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If two departments both use P25 but one uses Motorola radios and the other uses Harris radios, would both systems work the same because it's the same technology or would they work differently because of the different manufacturer?

It works the same because the protocol is standardized across all radios with P25. The audio may sound slightly different but one radio capable of receiving P25 will receive a different radio's P25 signal.
 

JethrowJohnson

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It works the same because the protocol is standardized across all radios with P25. The audio may sound slightly different but one radio capable of receiving P25 will receive a different radio's P25 signal.
Okay, so if two units have a short conversation on a channel, the one is a Motorola and the other is a Harris, the Motorola might have a better audio quality and when he keys the PTT button it makes a half-second long tone to let him know the channel's clear for transmission, but the Harris only does a little chirp which means the same thing, but the audio might sound different. Do I have this straightened out now?
 

dlwtrunked

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Because if they don't want anyone to know what they're saying, then why take a chance by assuming no one can figure out their codes. Spoken codes can be figured out over time if you pay enough attention, but if they encrypt their traffic, then in order to hear them you'd have to somehow install an encryption key software which is probably extremely hard for a civilian to do. So encryption would be more secure that way. So my original point was: it's not illegal to listen to their messages if it's not encrypted.

Spoken good codes only used once or with have changing keys are very secure and are still used by the Department of Defense for that reason. Keep in mind that just one stolen encrypted radio can seriously compromise a system. But also a voice system can probably more quickly recover when new keys are sent out often not needing any technology. In fact, they can be unbreakable (regardless of computer power and time), for example one-time pads, but of course they can be cumbersome and usually only practical only for low traffic volume. If I were currently breaking codes, I would be perhaps happier trying to break a digital one as it would be easier to collect large amounts of data. Each has its positives and negatives and in reality the as voice is moving to be digital, things are changing. Complicating all this is the rise of QKD (quantum key encryption)--which falls into the digital encryption category where the distribution of the key is such that when it is transmitted, if a third party intercepts it, and does not even use it, the authorized users will still know.
 
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JethrowJohnson

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Spoken good codes only used once or with have changing keys are very secure and are still used by the Department of Defense for that reason. Keep in mind that just one stolen encrypted radio can seriously compromise a system. But also a voice system can probably more quickly recover when new keys are sent out often not needing any technology. In fact, they can be unbreakable (regardless of computer power and time), for example one-time pads, but of course they can be cumbersome and usually only practical only for low traffic volume. If I were currently breaking codes, I would be perhaps happier trying to break a digital one as it would be easier to collect large amounts of data. Each has its positives and negatives and in reality the as voice is moving to be digital, things are changing. Complicating all this is the rise of QKD (quantum key encryption)--which falls into the digital encryption category where the distribution of the key is such that when it is transmitted, if a third party intercepts it, and does not even use it, the authorized users will still know.
Okay, that sounds interesting, but it seems like that QKD site was talking about computers and things like that. I thought we were talking about a radio system - which kind of does involve computers, but what I was thinking of was somewhat less advanced than this I think.
 

DVINTHEHOUSEMAN

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Okay, so if two units have a short conversation on a channel, the one is a Motorola and the other is a Harris, the Motorola might have a better audio quality and when he keys the PTT button it makes a half-second long tone to let him know the channel's clear for transmission, but the Harris only does a little chirp which means the same thing, but the audio might sound different. Do I have this straightened out now?

Pretty much. There'll always be some differences in quality and firmware and whatnot between manufacturers but P25 is one protocol so radios being built for use with P25 have to be built to spec otherwise they won't work.
 

dlwtrunked

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Okay, that sounds interesting, but it seems like that QKD site was talking about computers and things like that. I thought we were talking about a radio system - which kind of does involve computers, but what I was thinking of was somewhat less advanced than this I think.

It can be used to share digital keys for anything including encrypted voice communications. Yes, you are right that QKD is more advanced than the general discussion but I mentioned it as indicating how things are evolving. But QKD protecting keys would be a major advancement.
 
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