ChrisBoden
Scientist, Author, Weirdo
Now, I like that idea. How would I go about generating a P25 transmission? I'm new to Rx, and nowhere near competent enough for the Tx side of things yet.
Legality of decoding P25 Police/EMS/Fire data in an educational video.
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I guess we are all going to jail. I know you are rightfully quoting the law. I just find it funny that the law says that, yet it happens all the time in plain sight on all scanner forums. The only way I see us “getting away” with discussing things we heard on the scanner and broadcasting feeds is we can be considered “authorized” since it is used by a public service. I am no Lawer
I really don’t understand all the controversy. Isn’t P25 just another type of transmission. So if I taught someone how to build an analog receiver that receives in the public safety bands would that be illegal? If I show someone how to follow a trunked analog radio system on an SDR would I be breaking the law? I don’t see the difference in teaching someone to decode and follow a P25 system or an analog system. Now I do see an issue with encryption which is illegal to decode and nearly impossible. Am I missing something?
prcguy
Member
Any of these amateur P25 repeaters near you?
If you were near LA, CA I would loan you a P25 radio.
If you were near LA, CA I would loan you a P25 radio.
prcguy
Member
Duplicate post, oops.
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RFI-EMI-GUY
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Indeed there are plenty of folks doing so. In fact one of those folks works for a prestige university and has picked apart all the warts in P25 encryption. But he is sort of protected in that he published these under the banner of the university so he has some lawyers up in the ivory tower to scare away overly zealous DA's.
The problem with public safety mobile data systems is that some cheesy vendors and even some agencies design communications programs that rely on the obscurity that results from the complexity of the standards to "protect" the traffic. Other than be greatly embarrassed by some smart kid figuring out the scheme, they are likely to go nuclear. More so in this political environment where "everything" is "Homeland Security" and thus any perceived violation is "terrorism". This has happened in many similar cases with various technology. In Bill Cheek's case he sold a simple circuit to a guy in long island who took the hobby to the extreme and ported LE mobile data onto the internet for all. So the NY DA seeing fresh meat went after Bill Cheek and his wife and made their life miserable.
I encourage the OP to experiment and share what he is doing. It interests me greatly. But I would be wary of the wider youtube audience because there are always folks that will take the knowledge to the extreme. And on the other side there are those ignorant DA's, Judges and jurors that think "hacking" is a criminal enterprise.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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Some Info:
What I am finding most interesting is the tangent that this thread has taken (but very appropriately). Generally speaking, security works because of others' ignorance. Take an everyday ordinary door lock (the physical kind). If you understand the basics, picking it is not difficult and with practice you can be quite skilled. Then we have cell site simulators. They can be built with basic electronics knowledge and clearly illustrate why it is stupid to use a cell phone for personal activities, let alone financial.
Here we're talking about decoding the serial (data) stream we receive via scanners. If that data is encrypted, then an additional step is required to recover the original data. If it's discussed in a general manner, you'd think that wouldn't upset people. But when you clearly outline ALL of the details in one place, I can see some zealous government authority getting bent out of shape. Funny, we can do these things in private, and who knows? But share it openly, be aware.
Here we're talking about decoding the serial (data) stream we receive via scanners. If that data is encrypted, then an additional step is required to recover the original data. If it's discussed in a general manner, you'd think that wouldn't upset people. But when you clearly outline ALL of the details in one place, I can see some zealous government authority getting bent out of shape. Funny, we can do these things in private, and who knows? But share it openly, be aware.
Does not every digital scanner decode P25 transmissions? P25 is not encrypted in general. Should all Uniden Techs be thrown in jail? It can be encrypted but in general it is not. Amateur radio operators use P25. It is no secret.
prcguy
Member
There is nobody saying you cannot receive anything unencrypted or cannot decode P25 data, but you might want to fully understand the laws if you are going to post either from a law enforcement broadcast in a video. They way the laws are written and the way I understand it you can receive anything unencrypted. You may not be able to tell others what you heard in detail depending on who transmitted it. I don't know if a video recording with audio or decoded data crosses the line of divulging the contents of a conversation.
Nonsense. Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) was established by the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology, and the implementation details are published - outlining all of the details in one place:
There is no reason to be worried about publicly sharing and discussing information about how an encryption method works when the government has already provided that information to the public.
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n1das
Member
THIS. ^
prcguy
Member
RFI-EMI-GUY
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I got to be halfway proficient at raking door locks.
One day my neighbor came by to say she had left her keys somewhere and was locked out, could she come stay until hubby (a lawyer) arrived much later. (Thinking back was there something I missed?)
Anyway, being a hero I went over to her house and got the door opened in about 1 minute. She had a very worried look on her face as I let her in.
The silliness is evident to all of us. However the ignorant masses are eager to throw stones at hackers and lock pickers.
Anyone remember the anarchists cookbook or "pretty good privacy" PGP?
One day my neighbor came by to say she had left her keys somewhere and was locked out, could she come stay until hubby (a lawyer) arrived much later. (Thinking back was there something I missed?)
Anyway, being a hero I went over to her house and got the door opened in about 1 minute. She had a very worried look on her face as I let her in.
The silliness is evident to all of us. However the ignorant masses are eager to throw stones at hackers and lock pickers.
Anyone remember the anarchists cookbook or "pretty good privacy" PGP?
Books as Contraband: The Strange Case of 'The Anarchist Cookbook'
In a federal prosecution in Maryland, Ali Saboonchi was charged with violating U.S. export restrictions on trade with the Islamic Republic of Iran. After
warontherocks.com
scanmanmi
Member
Soooooooooooooo............. what happened?
RFI-EMI-GUY
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I hope you posted that from your bunker in an undisclosed location. The government is coming after you now for disclosing the secrets of the new world order.
He passed away from cancer before his case went to trail but the prosecutor made sure his final days were miserable before he died.
Bill Cheek
I think Bill Cheek would have liked the BCD396T scanner. This radio does a lot of the things he devoloped mods in other radios to do. Things like the squelch engaging the light. Lots of memories. And much more. Bill was a pioneer. I do not see much credit going his way for all the work he did...
Syncopations
Hears voices in my head.
The way I see it, it's like a how-to video on programming a radio scanner. SDR with DSD+ is just that, a radio scanner, but with extra steps.
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