Legoland NY- LCN searching, choice of frequencies - WRFI876

[ytf]

So Legoland NY is open and I have the FCC license as WRFI876 ( ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked License - WRFI876 - Merlin Entertainment Group, LegoLand New York Resort ) .
It doesn't seem that there is any other information on scanning their trunked system in radio reference or anywhere else including the uniden database. As far as I can tell the Legoland NY system is a mototurbo trunked system.

I have scanned it for about 10 hours during open hours with LCN searching on the frequencies:

461.15
463.4
463.6375
464.1875
464.675

and I have found 3 of the 5 LCN numbers so far. Received signal strength on the scanner is full scale.

My question is how can I be sure I am scanning the proper frequencies for LCN numbers?

My thought in selecting those frequencies was that they are the highest wattage frequencies on the license and are also co-located so I figured they were the "bases". I am now considering widening my LCN search to include:

452.4
464.075

and perhaps a few others from the license, but I am convinced most of the others are base inputs. How many frequencies could I enter for the LCN search before I starting missing information because I have too many frequencies in there?

I have done a little talk group discovery of the system using only the LCN numbers I have (3,4,5), and I have successful decodes of audio but I seem to be missing allot. The scanner is a 436HP, although I don't think that matters much in this application.

Could someone with more experience starting scanning a trunking system from scratch please have a look at the license and tell me what channels they would LCN search?

Thanks for the elmering!

73,
Tom

 

[dave3825]

My question is how can I be sure I am scanning the proper frequencies for LCN numbers?

You say your getting full signal on those freqs. How close to Legoland are you ? Also, what kind of voice comms are you hearing? Do they sound Lego related?

 

[ytf]

You say your getting full signal on those freqs. How close to Legoland are you ? Also, what kind of voice comms are you hearing? Do they sound Lego related?

I scan while on campus at legoland with the 436HP and a rubber duck antenna tuned for the 400mhz range. The voice comms I am getting definitely appear to be legoland and a few times I have heard them live from a workers radio while hearing them on the scanner.

Certainly I am missing allot...and thats what gets me. How can I be missing allot AND not catching those LCN numbers? I would think that if there was a lot of traffic on the "missing LCN numbers" I would have discovered those LCN numbers sooner. But really I want to know if I am searching the right frequencies for the LCN numbers. Perhaps I am not searching enough of the frequencies listed in the license? How do people typically choose what frequencies listed in the license that they scan for LCN numbers?

73 & thanks,
Tom

 

[k2hz]

The five frequencies you have listed are the only ones licensed as FB2 which would be used for trunking. Not all LCNs in a system are necessarily active. It is hard to know what is going on without looking at the CC data with DSD+.

If you are missing a LCN when monitoring with the 436 it will show a TG active but you will not hear any audio if it is on a non-programed LCN.

Why do you believe you are "missing a lot" ? Are you getting solid reception of the Control Channel?

 

[GTR8000]

What flavor of DMR trunking is the scanner displaying when receiving transmissions? CAP? CON? DT3? Is there a constant control channel, indicating a Connect Plus (CON) or Tier III (DT3) system, or no?

 

[n2pqq]

Looking at the Database for Orange county I came across this
Chester Industrial park is very close to the new Legoland
Some of the frequencies even are the same .

FCC Callsign WQAS969 (AMSCAN INC)

FCC Callsign WQAS969 (AMSCAN INC)

www.radioreference.com

Activity I hear is 461.150 Pl 114.8
I don't know if this is Amscan Inc or Legoland
Sounds like a maintenance related channel
I am about 10 miles away .

 

[GTR8000]

Looking at the Database for Orange county I came across this
Chester Industrial park is very close to the new Legoland
Some of the frequencies even are the same .

FCC Callsign WQAS969 (AMSCAN INC)

FCC Callsign WQAS969 (AMSCAN INC)

www.radioreference.com

Activity I hear is 461.150 Pl 114.8
I don't know if this is Amscan Inc or Legoland
Sounds like a maintenance related channel
I am about 10 miles away .

If you're hearing analog with a PL, then you're not hearing Legoland. They have licensed only DMR emissions, no analog (Amscan is all analog)

 

[ytf]

The five frequencies you have listed are the only ones licensed as FB2 which would be used for trunking. Not all LCNs in a system are necessarily active. It is hard to know what is going on without looking at the CC data with DSD+.

If you are missing a LCN when monitoring with the 436 it will show a TG active but you will not hear any audio if it is on a non-programed LCN.

Why do you believe you are "missing a lot" ? Are you getting solid reception of the Control Channel?

I believe I am missing allot because while walking around Legoland many times I hear the workers having conversations on their HTs and my scanner does not catch them. Now that I think of it though, perhaps this is what happens with a trunked system? We can only hear one conversation at a time with our scanners yet there may be many happening simultaneously? That being said there isn't much traffic at all on my scanner when I am there even on a busy day, and that does not seem in keeping with the level of activity I hear emanating from the workers radios as I walk by.

 

[ytf]

What flavor of DMR trunking is the scanner displaying when receiving transmissions? CAP? CON? DT3? Is there a constant control channel, indicating a Connect Plus (CON) or Tier III (DT3) system, or no?

Interesting--I had not watched the screen enough to know. Last outing I kept the scanner in LCN search mode the whole time out of frustration.

 

[ytf]

If you're hearing analog with a PL, then you're not hearing Legoland. They have licensed only DMR emissions, no analog (Amscan is all analog)

I am getting DMR hits that are

What flavor of DMR trunking is the scanner displaying when receiving transmissions? CAP? CON? DT3? Is there a constant control channel, indicating a Connect Plus (CON) or Tier III (DT3) system, or no?

Reviewing my trunking discovery saved session, the hits are just labeled Audio Type "DIGITAL" and I have a color code and unit ID. So definitely digital but still I don't know what was displayed when it was received.

73,
Tom

 

[ytf]

The five frequencies you have listed are the only ones licensed as FB2 which would be used for trunking. Not all LCNs in a system are necessarily active. It is hard to know what is going on without looking at the CC data with DSD+.

If you are missing a LCN when monitoring with the 436 it will show a TG active but you will not hear any audio if it is on a non-programed LCN.

Why do you believe you are "missing a lot" ? Are you getting solid reception of the Control Channel?

Thanks for the info on the FB2---thats what I was looking for really. How much confidence should we have that the license is correct---that the FB2 channels are properly marked? Also good to know that the "missing" LCN numbers might simply not be active. Can DSD+ run on a raspberry PI?

73,
Tom

 

[k2hz]

Thanks for the info on the FB2---thats what I was looking for really. How much confidence should we have that the license is correct---that the FB2 channels are properly marked? Also good to know that the "missing" LCN numbers might simply not be active. Can DSD+ run on a raspberry PI?

73,
Tom

They have 2 FB frequencies and associated mobile frequencies on the license. These may be simplex frequencies used primarily for direct portable to portable communications you probably would not hear off-site. The trunked system may be reserved for just certain "park wide" activities while simplex makes more sense for a group just involved with a localized activity.

I find it is very common for trunked systems to not use all their available LCN frequencies which were probably licensed for anticipated growth but not presently needed.

DSD+ is a Windows program and I am not sure if it will run on the Pi version of Windows but I do not see any reason it wouldn't.

 

[dave3825]

I believe I am missing allot because while walking around Legoland many times I hear the workers having conversations on their HTs and my scanner does not catch them. Now that I think of it though, perhaps this is what happens with a trunked system? We can only hear one conversation at a time with our scanners yet there may be many happening simultaneously?

If they're running a trunk system, they could be using more than one talk group. And if the scanner is stopped on one, it will not be able to listen to the other.

 

[GTR8000]

Confirmed Capacity Plus system. So far it seems that the LCN's follow the frequency order from lowest to highest, with LCN 3 (463.6375) and LCN 4 (464.1875) being the most active when activity is light. Talkgroups observed so far are 1 through 11. Color Code for all repeaters is 9. I haven't done any identification of the talkgroups yet.

LEGOLAND New York Trunking System, Goshen, New York

LEGOLAND New York Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[ytf]

GTR which LCN numbers did you actually receive?

 

[GTR8000]

GTR which LCN numbers did you actually receive?

Which did you receive when you originally used LCN Finder? You never did post any of your actual findings of which three frequencies matched up to which LCN's or what color code you decoded.

 

[ytf]

I’m asking because you listed all of the LCN numbers in your upload to the database but I wanted to know if you were just guessing or if you actually got them all. Wouldn’t you just upload 0 as the LCN numbers you have not yet directly received as opposed to guessing at the numbers and uploading them?

No idea on the color codes as I don’t think they were saved, and no need for them on my
scanner as far as I know as it will “color code search”. Is there a benefit to knowing the color code? Can we just simply pick the talkgroups we want to listen to and forget about color codes? It seems to work that way on my 436. Perhaps we need color codes if there is a nearby unreleated system on the same frequency and same modulation?

I THINK ( I’ll check tomorrow) I got LCNs 3, 4, 5 and they were in freq order matching your post for 3, and 4 but looking at other systems and specifically other legoland systems in other states it seems that’s no guarantee that all of the LCN numbers are in freq order just because 3,4,5 are. That’s one reason I didn’t upload my findings.

 

[GTR8000]

The bottom line is that I had no issue tracking the system today using the LCN values as I added them to the database.

 

[ytf]

I’m asking because you listed all of the LCN numbers in your upload to the database but I wanted to know if you were just guessing or if you actually got them all. Wouldn’t you just upload 0 as the LCN numbers you have not yet directly received as opposed to guessing at the numbers and uploading them?

No idea on the color codes as I don’t think they were saved, and no need for them on my
scanner as far as I know as it will “color code search”. Is there a benefit to knowing the color code? Can we just simply pick the talkgroups we want to listen to and forget about color codes? It seems to work that way on my 436. Perhaps we need color codes if there is a nearby unreleated system on the same frequency and same modulation?

I THINK ( I’ll check tomorrow) I got LCNs 3, 4, 5 and they were in freq order matching your post for 3, and 4 but looking at other systems and specifically other legoland systems in other states it seems that’s no guarantee that all of the LCN numbers are in freq order just because 3,4,5 are. That’s one reason I didn’t upload my findings.

You know I have to check the recordings again, perhaps the color codes were saved there?

 

[ytf]

The bottom line is that I had no issue tracking the system today using the LCN values as I added them to the database.

Did you hear any activity on LCNs 1 and 2?