Lewis County, NY Plans $10M Upgrade To Communication System

Status
Not open for further replies.

KD2DXF

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
466
Location
Utica, NY

KD2DXF

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
466
Location
Utica, NY
$10 million dollars for a county of only 13,870. This comes out to an initial net cost of around $721 per resident!

Wonder what the yearly operating cost will amount to? 31 percent of the county's population are living under the poverty level.

Lewis County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Just wondering how they plan to pay for such an expensive system.
Funded by grants...
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
Unbelievably egregious waste.

Two thirds of that county is uninhabited wilderness where there aren't even any roads.
$22k per capita annual income. 14% below the federal poverty level. Are walkie talkies really their biggest problem?
Why praytell,
do they need a "State-of-the-art" ANYTHING?
 

KD2DXF

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
466
Location
Utica, NY
It is state of the art to them. The new radio system is much needed. most fire departments cant talk to each other, let alone to anyone out of the county for mutual aid response. The state is offering the money, might as well take it and run.
 

12dbsinad

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,226
Remember, any type of public safety comm system will require maintenance. Creating a system out of "one time free money for the county" essentially can be a recipe for disaster. Like the saying, if someone gave you a 777 jetliner for free, could you afford to fly it? Not saying that the County doesn't need to do something, but like anything there are a 101 million ways of doing so. It's the balance between doing what is needed that will be functional and work well for a small county or just flat out going bonkers.
 
Last edited:

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
It is state of the art to them. The new radio system is much needed. most fire departments cant talk to each other, let alone to anyone out of the county for mutual aid response. The state is offering the money, might as well take it and run.
Can you please explain to me why they are unable to talk to other fire departments and why that is even necessary considering the entire population center of the county is nowhere near the county lines and is in fact surrounded by miles and miles of uninhabited wilderness and lakes, swamps, etc?
 

KD2DXF

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
466
Location
Utica, NY
Can you please explain to me why they are unable to talk to other fire departments and why that is even necessary considering the entire population center of the county is nowhere near the county lines and is in fact surrounded by miles and miles of uninhabited wilderness and lakes, swamps, etc?
The population center would be Lowville, which is also the county seat. There are many villages that boarder the surrounding counties. For Example Port Leyden, West Leyden, Carthage. Natual Bridge, and Copenhagen to name a few. Lewis uses VHF Low band, with aging and broken equipment. Surrounding counties either have VHF Hi, or 400 MHz. 2 years ago, Port Leyden Fire was called out when the mini Microburst took out power lines and trees on the Moose River Road. Old Forge Fire had the upper portion of the road shut off, and Port Leyden had the lower portion. Neither could talk to eachother. cell phones don't work there. And with the power being out, McCauly Radio tower was out. Had to resort to CB radio, as many of the Fire Fighter, have them in their POV's. You cant judge what the county should have based on a bunch of statistics found online. there are many villages and communities throughout Lewis County.
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
The population center would be Lowville, which is also the county seat. There are many villages that boarder the surrounding counties. For Example Port Leyden, West Leyden, Carthage. Natual Bridge, and Copenhagen to name a few. Lewis uses VHF Low band, with aging and broken equipment. Surrounding counties either have VHF Hi, or 400 MHz. 2 years ago, Port Leyden Fire was called out when the mini Microburst took out power lines and trees on the Moose River Road. Old Forge Fire had the upper portion of the road shut off, and Port Leyden had the lower portion. Neither could talk to eachother. cell phones don't work there. And with the power being out, McCauly Radio tower was out. Had to resort to CB radio, as many of the Fire Fighter, have them in their POV's. You cant judge what the county should have based on a bunch of statistics found online. there are many villages and communities throughout Lewis County.
OK that makes perfect sense however do you see that there is a solution for interoperability somewhere in between CB radios and $10 million dollars?
I'm just saying, when talking about literally "villages", A $10 million dollar solution is probably excessive, wouldn't you agree?

Furthermore, if neighboring counties are going to break with tradition and go to some other band, why then, should the burden be placed on everyone else to catch up to them? Obviously they don't wish to interoperate because if they did, they'd stay in the same band as everyone else.
 

MTS2000des

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
3,559
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
The assistance to firefighters grant was only for $2.5 million, not the full 11.1 million the county allocated out of their general fund to this expensive project.

I'm sorry but a county with fewer residents than the little toilet town I live in outside Metro Atlanta spending over 11 million dollars on a radio system seems steep. The county's total budget:

http://lewiscountyny.org/content/Generic/View/81:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/2397.pdf

The real question, which is often hidden, is what the yearly operating cost of such large, complex and expensive systems are for small governments like this. Darryl Jones summed it up very well:

When the digital trunked radio bubble bursts... | Daryl Jones' Weblog

Grant money is great, but it doesn't flow forever and once you buy a complex solution, you are married to it and the high operating costs for a decade or more.

Can the taxpayers really afford this when there are much smaller scale, less expensive options that aren't often considered?
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
Grant money is great, but it doesn't flow forever and once you buy a complex solution, you are married to it and the high operating costs for a decade or more.
If they're just now upgrading from a low band base/mobile radio system that doesn't work, can you imagine the struggle when their race-to-waste DTRS is no longer supported? Where's the next grant going to come from? Unless we have another 9-11, I don't see where. How stupid does one have to be to make such a horrendous, costly mistake?! How are they going to raise taxes on 27k people that don't make hardly peanuts to begin with.
 

KD2DXF

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
466
Location
Utica, NY
So far, to my knowledge, this will be part of the Central New York Interoperable Communications Consortium UHF System.
 
D

DaveNF2G

Guest
Salespeople undoubtedly follow the grant money around. If the big cities lack the expertise to see through the sales babble, then where (or why) do you expect such knowledge to reside in a rural county?
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
Salespeople undoubtedly follow the grant money around. If the big cities lack the expertise to see through the sales babble, then where (or why) do you expect such knowledge to reside in a rural county?
LOL yeah. Why expect that any municipal body be run by competent individuals that are proficient at speaking words and operating a 4 function calculator? :confused:
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
I noticed many places utilizing conventional 700, vhf and don't have a problem. With the quantity of zones allowed and capable I don't see why everyone needs to be trunked. It's costs too much over time with maintenance. Look at the article about Baldwin. Wanting others to help float the cost. Every county around me operates vhf and everyone has an others band plan and interop setup. Then 2 odd ball counties followed a opposite city in another state and went edacs. Now to phase 2 soon it looks. Telling admins you really must be interop with us. Nobody else looking to go to phase 2 or can't afford it or sees the cost down road. Not one problem utilizing vhf and having everyone in there own zone on another's radios and the vtacs in its own. Even the towns the same size as one who went edacs don't have a issue using vhf conventional. It's a bigger county and larger population. No problems. Race to waste indeed by others and makes me wonder if salesmen tell them if you get Bob and Dillan convinced to be on we can lower your cost and they can pick up the tab for you. Majority bought tons and tons of xts xtl equipment in long haul term use. Parts etc. They all agreed besides the two knuckle head counties you must need phase 2 and trunking it's latest snd will last. Ummm yeah until phase 3 and 5 come out then what. Allot of folks in decision making need to realize p25 is a ever changing standard and will always change. It's a marketing gimmick. They'll continue to use fancy words and talk to convince Bob to log on then tell Harry well Bob's on type 500 but we just came out with the mega1000 while months later after Harry gets bonus 500 they sell and tell Dave hey we just came out with 2000SUX. If you convince Bob to re upgrade he can cover many of your costs and we will throw in a bonus for you. Plus you will be all interop again. But they don't tell them while they do that loop there already selling new improved bone head 6000 systems to harry.
 

kb4mdz

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2003
Messages
226
Location
Cary, NC
Just an aside, I've decided that "grant money" is almost indistinguishable from what a lit of people call welfare. And I AM familiar with Lewis county (and St. Lawrence next door) - Rural barely begins to describe it.
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
I noticed many places utilizing conventional 700, vhf and don't have a problem. With the quantity of zones allowed and capable I don't see why everyone needs to be trunked. It's costs too much over time with maintenance. Look at the article about Baldwin. Wanting others to help float the cost. Every county around me operates vhf and everyone has an others band plan and interop setup. Then 2 odd ball counties followed a opposite city in another state and went edacs. Now to phase 2 soon it looks. Telling admins you really must be interop with us. Nobody else looking to go to phase 2 or can't afford it or sees the cost down road. Not one problem utilizing vhf and having everyone in there own zone on another's radios and the vtacs in its own. Even the towns the same size as one who went edacs don't have a issue using vhf conventional. It's a bigger county and larger population. No problems. Race to waste indeed by others and makes me wonder if salesmen tell them if you get Bob and Dillan convinced to be on we can lower your cost and they can pick up the tab for you. Majority bought tons and tons of xts xtl equipment in long haul term use. Parts etc. They all agreed besides the two knuckle head counties you must need phase 2 and trunking it's latest snd will last. Ummm yeah until phase 3 and 5 come out then what. Allot of folks in decision making need to realize p25 is a ever changing standard and will always change. It's a marketing gimmick. They'll continue to use fancy words and talk to convince Bob to log on then tell Harry well Bob's on type 500 but we just came out with the mega1000 while months later after Harry gets bonus 500 they sell and tell Dave hey we just came out with 2000SUX. If you convince Bob to re upgrade he can cover many of your costs and we will throw in a bonus for you. Plus you will be all interop again. But they don't tell them while they do that loop there already selling new improved bone head 6000 systems to harry.
+1 Well said. Agree 100%

Just an aside, I've decided that "grant money" is almost indistinguishable from what a lit of people call welfare. And I AM familiar with Lewis county (and St. Lawrence next door) - Rural barely begins to describe it.
Also on point. It's welfare alright. Welfare for Motorola Solutions.
 

KD2DXF

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
466
Location
Utica, NY
Lewis County, NY Radio Upgrade (Update)

Lewis County has been talking and consulting for the past couple years about upgrading their outdated Public Safety Radio System. The Contract was won my EF Johnson last year, and they are currently in the building phase. FCC Licenses (P25) have been approved, and plans to be linked into the CNY ICC System. current radio system only offers the county about 50% radio coverage, the system in build will offer 95%, with the main loss being the Town of Diana due to the terrain. System testing is supposed to start around June or July, with the potential to go live in August 2015.

Information above was partially taken, and more can be read from:
JournalandRepublican Article on Lewic County Radio System

More information from Lewis County Legislaters Minutes (starts on pg 25)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top