LFD/LPD/SO Encrypted?

spywiz

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I am retired from the Lexington Fire Department. I now live in eastern NC. Can anyone confirm/deny if Lexington's P25 system is encrypted or just DRM?
Thanks.
 

Remington12G

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I am retired from the Lexington Fire Department. I now live in eastern NC. Can anyone confirm/deny if Lexington's P25 system is encrypted or just DRM?
Thanks.
All Public Safety Departments in Lexington are encrypted including the following. Lexington Division of Fire, Lexington Metro Police, LFUCG Office of Emergency Management, Corrections, Airport Public Safety, and some public works. Fayette County Sheriff/Constables use 800Mhz Analog and UHF DMR Trunking and Animal Control also uses DMR.
 
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msradell

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All Public Safety Departments in Lexington are encrypted including the following. Lexington Division of Fire, Lexington Metro Police, LFUCG Office of Emergency Management, Corrections, Airport Public Safety, and some public works. Fayette County Sheriff/Constables use 800Mhz Analog and UHF DMR Trunking and Animal Control also uses DMR.
Why? I understand that certain EMS conversations and PD special operations communications probably have a need to be encrypted but other than that I've never seen a justification for encryption. FD operations and Animal Control certainly have no need for communications to be encrypted on a regular basis. Has anybody started a lawsuit yet to require them to have more communications without encryption? I've seen it happen in many places.
 

Remington12G

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Why? I understand that certain EMS conversations and PD special operations communications probably have a need to be encrypted but other than that I've never seen a justification for encryption. FD operations and Animal Control certainly have no need for communications to be encrypted on a regular basis. Has anybody started a lawsuit yet to require them to have more communications without encryption? I've seen it happen in many places.
The issue at hand is always politics, it's a domino effect. Look at Madison and Scott County, mostly encrypted. The news won't cover anything like this for one reason, they have access. WKYT, Fox 56, ABC 36, LEX 18 all have P25 radios programmed for the system issued to them after they sign an agreement, not sure if they paid for access for the radios but they all have the ability to listen. Here in Georgetown, I'm the main eyes and ears telling people what's going on when questions arise because local authorities don't release information on an incident or put out a social media post. University of Kentucky has the only P25 system in this region where police aren't encrypted full time, Central Sector Divison on Lexington's system is partially encrypted and only some units come through clear but it doesn't really count as the majoirty is encrypted.
 

ofd8001

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The only fire talkgroups that I think merit encryption are an Arson Surveillance along with a Command talkgroup. There may be an injured firefighter related communications that you wouldn't want family members hearing via radio.

This is based on 40+ years in the fire service and have seen many different kinds of incidents.
 

SenorMoofer

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The issue at hand is always politics, it's a domino effect. Look at Madison and Scott County, mostly encrypted. The news won't cover anything like this for one reason, they have access. WKYT, Fox 56, ABC 36, LEX 18 all have P25 radios programmed for the system issued to them after they sign an agreement, not sure if they paid for access for the radios but they all have the ability to listen. Here in Georgetown, I'm the main eyes and ears telling people what's going on when questions arise because local authorities don't release information on an incident or put out a social media post. University of Kentucky has the only P25 system in this region where police aren't encrypted full time, Central Sector Divison on Lexington's system is partially encrypted and only some units come through clear but it doesn't really count as the majoirty is encrypted.
Sorry I am late to this party, when Scott County went with the new radio system the encryption was questioned in council meetings heavily the only justification they could say was the current system (previous edacs) was being broadcasted over the internet to devices and causing security risk, officers were "complained of the risk of the communications being heard" when pressed further people where told this is the future deal with it.

The reason for the news stations to have access was to avoid the lawsuit that was threatened by said local news stations, same thing happened when Lexington went encrypted they threatened the city with a lawsuit, city gave them access they where satisfied and didn't push the issue. I tend to wonder what would happen if the citizens had a lawyer that filed a class action if it would change anything. Theoretically it could be reasoned that the communication between dispatch and officers is public domain given they are agents of the public, tax payer funded.

I am rather shocked that in larger cities some lawyer hasn't attempted this approach.
 

ofd8001

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Theoretically it could be reasoned that the communication between dispatch and officers is public domain given they are agents of the public, tax payer funded.

I am rather shocked that in larger cities some lawyer hasn't attempted this approach.
It would be interesting if citizens were to flood the dispatch center with open records requests for radio traffic. Some requests might be deniable, but not all.

Bad part about allowing media access is this: The media decides what is passed on to the public and that is their best estimate of what the public might find interesting enough to watch their TV station or buy their newspaper. This may not always fulfill the curiosity of why there were 10 police cars and 5 fire trucks rushing down my street. Or if the cops are chasing a burglar next street over at noon, I may need to be sure my doors are locked. Hearing that on the 6:00 news is too late for me to act.

Lawyers are interested in advocating for something only when someone is paying them a fee or they stand to benefit financially.
 

Remington12G

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I will say that there was a lot of lying that was done in the questioning of the city council meetings, I didn't provide the feed but it had a one minute delay at least even with decent internet. The Georgetown Police chief said that they have been in houses and have not been able to use their radios because of someone's phone streaming the audio.

I can tell you that transparency no longer exists here in Georgetown or Scott county. All we have is Fire and public works, and even though I've been told over and over that Event, Interop, and Mutual Aid channels will be open I've seen on multiple occasions like the 4th of July where all agencies are using encryption and even on the Senior Day parade around town, all agencies involved were running AES. It's a parade, most of it consisted of traffic control, and that's about it, it wasn't a sting operation or drug bust, it was driving around town with lights and sirens on.

The city government here doesn't care and ignores citizens. We rely on Facebook posts which is controlled by a PAO who might not be available to post 24/7. All the citizens of Georgetown and Scott County want is GPD and SCSO Dispatch channels unencrypted and everything else can remain the same.

/rant off
 
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SenorMoofer

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I will say that there was a lot of lying that was done in the questioning of the city council meetings, I didn't provide the feed but it had a one minute delay at least even with decent internet. The Georgetown Police chief said that they have been in houses and have not been able to use their radios because of someone's phone streaming the audio.

I can tell you that transparency no longer exists here in Georgetown or Scott county. All we have is Fire and public works, and even though I've been told over and over that Event, Interop, and Mutual Aid channels will be open I've seen on multiple occasions like the 4th of July where all agencies are using encryption and even on the Senior Day parade around town, all agencies involved were running AES. It's a parade, most of it consisted of traffic control, and that's about it, it wasn't a sting operation or drug bust, it was driving around town with lights and sirens on.

The city government here doesn't care and ignores citizens. We rely on Facebook posts which is controlled by a PAO who might not be available to post 24/7. All the citizens of Georgetown and Scott County want is GPD and SCSO Dispatch channels unencrypted and everything else can remain the same.

/rant off
Agreed, the manner in which encryption was pitched was using a flawed argument and taking no input from citizens, then justified it with completely erroneous statement. The feed actually had well over a 2 minute delay that was pointed out at a council meeting and the person that pointed the fact out was met with an interrogation style response in the meeting, and followed up with a visit from police questioning them on how they had "so much information" on the feed. They basically bullied the public and voted through what the company supplying the equipment recommended. The consultant that evaluated, bid and ultimately installed the system is notorious for pushing encryption and relishes in the fact that he has encrypted another system "protecting the thin blue line" (his words not mine). There is some irony in this individual making this statement that I would discuss publicly but he has a underlying cause to push encryption.

As a Scott county resident myself, I had many discussions over the encryption and was told many times that in general they would use it for everything, which has turned out to be false.
 

CORN

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Scanner feeders just can’t understand how they’re destroying the this portion of the hobby. I know this is an unpopular topic with the owner of this site and it’s said in the rules but it’s the truth. The naive ones say it’s not but if more and more agencies are citing the live feeds then it is most definitely the truth! I guess it’s just easier to lock the hobbyist out all together than send Cease and Desist letters to the live feed providers. Fortunately I enjoy aviation comms as well.
 
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