Lights out for Hamilton's Analog system

[tac7]

I heard a while ago that the new system for Hamilton was going live on the 22nd of June/12. It's still hard to believe when it actually happens though.

I have been listening since I was a kid, at a time where you had to de-tune an FM radio to be able to receive the police channel just around 87 MHz.
When I moved to Hamilton in the late 60's, Hamilton Police and Fire used the 150 MHz band, with separate channels for Dundas and other small towns around Hamilton. Then they all moved to 142 MHz with the Hamilton / Wentworth amalgamation. OPP was still on 42.060 and 42.220 analog, but they then moved to 142 MHz digital in the clear. Then came 800 MHz analog trunking, until now.

While the move to digital was inevitable, encryption could have been reserved for sensitive situations, or where there was a real concern for the risk of officers. They have been using terminals or cell phones for private info all along and managed well, so why go totally encrypted now?

In fact, when the profile of a dangerous offender is broadcast in the clear, it improves the safety of those that listen, since if spotted, they can avoid a dangerous encounter with the offender, and at the same time they can contact the police to help them capture the suspect.

Secrecy doesn't inspire trust. A system could be implemented for the public and media that either delays the transmissions for a specific time period, or where non-sensitive transmissions remain in the clear.

 

[EJB]

I heard a while ago that the new system for Hamilton was going live on the 22nd of June/12. It's still hard to believe when it actually happens though.

I have been listening since I was a kid, at a time where you had to de-tune an FM radio to be able to receive the police channel just around 87 MHz.
When I moved to Hamilton in the late 60's, Hamilton Police and Fire used the 150 MHz band, with separate channels for Dundas and other small towns around Hamilton. Then they all moved to 142 MHz with the Hamilton / Wentworth amalgamation. OPP was still on 42.060 and 42.220 analog, but they then moved to 142 MHz digital in the clear. Then came 800 MHz analog trunking, until now.

While the move to digital was inevitable, encryption could have been reserved for sensitive situations, or where there was a real concern for the risk of officers. They have been using terminals or cell phones for private info all along and managed well, so why go totally encrypted now?

In fact, when the profile of a dangerous offender is broadcast in the clear, it improves the safety of those that listen, since if spotted, they can avoid a dangerous encounter with the offender, and at the same time they can contact the police to help them capture the suspect.

Secrecy doesn't inspire trust. A system could be implemented for the public and media that either delays the transmissions for a specific time period, or where non-sensitive transmissions remain in the clear.

Hamilton feels differently that you do.

Any time I see comments like this, all about what we used to listen to, encryption, etc generally I have a responce: Why dont you call or email your city coinciller? Why dont you email or call the police chief? Ask them what when where why.
I did that for Halton. The counciller was more than happy to take the time to speak to me and get me in charge with the police chief.

One thing I have noticed is, a few police services, in Quebec, in Niagara, where the public cannot listen in there have been incidents where the officers did stuff that they shouldnt have done.

Ask them how much this is going to cost, how much they went over budget and why, does a large city that is struggling with a burnt out core, why are they paying big bucks, seemingly, your $ to conduct their affairs. Believe me, once they get their hands on your money, its theirs and treat it as such.


I doubt that this would have regional/counties from staying in the clear it does show that maybe the police should have some sort of place for us to listen?

 

[Forts]

I considered doing this for London... London Police are in the process of switching from their ageing encrypted EDACS system to a P25. I thought of trying to open a channel with LPS suggesting/asking if they considered leaving the general dispatch channels open. As I'm sure it is in many other citys LPS has been struggling mightily with their budgets of the past few years, asking for more and more money much to the dismay of the general public. To me it seems like it would be a good PR move to have some clear communications that Joe Taxpayer could listen to. Let him hear first hand how busy the officers are, how hard they are working and the typical crap they have to put up with. There has aslo been an increase in violent crime in London over the past few years and again I think it would be a benefit to the community to be able to hear about these events as they happen. Extra eyes on the streets never hurt! It makes perfect sense to me, but alas I don't live in the city any more (just work there) so I'm sure my comments would fall on deaf ears.

Back to Hamilton... it's always a shame to see the old systems shut down (especially if you can't listen in on the new ones). It was the same way in Windsor when they went encrypted a few years back... People confused by the fact that they can listen in to Detroit Police but not their own local departments. Imagine the uproar once Toronto Police finally flip the switch. Anyhow, I wouldn't go removing the existing Hamilton system from your radios right off the hop. Lots of times glitches and such are discovered after a transition and they may have to go back to the old system for a while.

 

[EJB]

The switch is on.

Police I guess are using talkgroups 501-3. I cant tell, my HP wont stop on them but they flash on my screen. For now fire was still dispatched on the old system.

Goodbye another system.
Goodbye another police force.

 

[jellotor]

Encrypted radio systems probably have zero impact on police officers breaking the law.

About the only thing that an encrypted radio system does (other than the nebulous "officer safety" issue) is allow the police service to manage the flow of information to the public.

Few media organizations (and I work for one of 'em) seem to be the least bit concerned about this. You can call it any way you like, but the media in general is willing to take the word of a police service at face value unless there's a reason not to. Laziness is a factor, too.

What you're likely to see, going forward, is less and less news stories in the paper, on radio or TV about "breaking news" and more and more about major drug busts, successful arrests of wanted persons and other quasi-PR bits done to make the police service look good and minimize any "bad press." More police dog graduation stories (with cake!) and fewer stories about drug busts gone wrong with innocent Myanmar refugees getting beaten up. Count on it.

Hamilton Police Service control the flow of information now. Good on 'em; basically no one has raised their hand to tell them that it's a bad idea.

 

[EJB]

Encrypted radio systems probably have zero impact on police officers breaking the law.

About the only thing that an encrypted radio system does (other than the nebulous "officer safety" issue) is allow the police service to manage the flow of information to the public.

Few media organizations (and I work for one of 'em) seem to be the least bit concerned about this. You can call it any way you like, but the media in general is willing to take the word of a police service at face value unless there's a reason not to. Laziness is a factor, too.

What you're likely to see, going forward, is less and less news stories in the paper, on radio or TV about "breaking news" and more and more about major drug busts, successful arrests of wanted persons and other quasi-PR bits done to make the police service look good and minimize any "bad press." More police dog graduation stories (with cake!) and fewer stories about drug busts gone wrong with innocent Myanmar refugees getting beaten up. Count on it.

Hamilton Police Service control the flow of information now. Good on 'em; basically no one has raised their hand to tell them that it's a bad idea.

I guess its the tradeoff for our modern society with its cameras and ability to record a news story that normally only ENG guys had access to equipment. Cops in many Golden Horseshore regions have had incidents lately, including Niagara and Halton (2 jurisdictions where we cannot hear what is going on).

I got the same crap about officer safety from the asstnt chief of police here and my counciller.

I'd say if it matters to anyone, if you see news, record it, keep the public aware, get your video on City or CH or whatever. Me, I dont really care, I am too tired and old to fight the police, I have a kid and a wife and life is hard enough.

But without local Halton and Hamilton my scanner is getting boring.

 

[se]

Im keeping my fingers crossed that London police will finally see the light after 15 years.

 

[steely70s]

The switch is on.

Police I guess are using talkgroups 501-3. I cant tell, my HP wont stop on them but they flash on my screen. For now fire was still dispatched on the old system.

Goodbye another system.
Goodbye another police force.

Yes Fire Dispatch is still in the clear on the old system but TAC channels appear to be only on the new system. This will probably be temporary.

Time to listen to the OPP and MOH.

 

[exkalibur]

Are the TAC channels on the new system encrypted? I've heard from someone that everything on the new system is encrypted but haven't been able to verify that as yet.

 

[Forts]

Im keeping my fingers crossed that London police will finally see the light after 15 years.

Don't count on it... LPS testing on the new system has been encrypted.

 

[steely70s]

Are the TAC channels on the new system encrypted? I've heard from someone that everything on the new system is encrypted but haven't been able to verify that as yet.

Yes all activity on the P25 system is encrypted including fire TAC channels.

 

[rjdeals]

i being unfamilar with this hobby, ..i assume my radio uniden 250 with the apco card isn,t much good for police in hamilton and if so what can i use it for. thanks to all

 

[steely70s]

Most activity on Fleetnet is either P25 or analogue which currently provides services for MOH (Ambulances including Hamilton), OPP, MNR, MTO. Most calls involving fires or other serious situations involving ambulances can be tracked on this system. The contract with bell for Fleetnet does not expire until 2017 so there is lots of time left.

 

[Forts]

Fleetnet is definitely the best use for your scanner at this point... You could also just sell it if this doesn't interest you. I'd imagine you could still get a decent buck for it.