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Linked capacity plus not working

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N1GTL

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Do you have a system ? What was the final resolution of the issue ?

==================
No resolution. I have had to put working on it off due to other projects.

I did some research on routers. Motorola documentation provides instructions for an HP MSR2020 router and they claim that specific router has been tested and works. NAT loop back is required which even the more basic routers do these days. It also mentions hair pinning or something like that. I don't have the document in front of me. One document mentions that specific router, other documents say it will work with almost any router..... Who do you believe?

I'm basically sitting on 3 peers that work perfectly with each other but none will bring up the master. Likewise, the master works as a stand alone but will not bring up the peers.

I checked wire shark on each of the individual routers. The routers connected to the three peers show packets from all 4 routers. When I wire shark the master router, it only displays packets from the master.

If I point RDAC at the master, it displays the status of the master as well as all three peers so I know the peers are registering with the master.

If I let all 4 repeaters come up then unplug the master, the three peers continue to work fine. That tells me the peers reported themselves to the master and that the master told all the peers about each other.

The neighbor list in the master is correct according to Motorola.

I'll be diving back into this next week. I need to set up port mirroring on the switch I'm using and connect that to my wire shark computer.
 

sirsmiley

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You list external and internal IPs. It looks like you are using port forward/dmz to do this from your outside of your router to the repeater.

Have you plugged in a laptop to your master site and used the repeaters IP to simulate being the repeater?

You should be able to ping the internal of the other sites.

Assuming you have one master site going to 3 routers with 3 wan links to 3 remote sites you should have something like this

192.168.1.101 ------10.0.0.1 ------10.0.0.2 ---192.168.2.102
-------10.0.0.3-------192.168.3.103
---------10.0.0.4-----192.168.4.140

if you have one central site that connects to the other 3 you should have a routing statement in your routers that point 10.0.0.1 to 10.0.0.2 to access the 192.168.2.102 network etc

you should also make sure your gateway is correct on your repeaters so they can route properly...

or is your network daisy chained where 10.0.0.1 ------10.0.0.2------------10.0.0.3----------10.0.0.4

Could you please provide your models of routers and how your wan is linked so that i can provide you a correct answer?

Thanks
 

N1GTL

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You list external and internal IPs. It looks like you are using port forward/dmz to do this from your outside of your router to the repeater.

Have you plugged in a laptop to your master site and used the repeaters IP to simulate being the repeater?

You should be able to ping the internal of the other sites.

Assuming you have one master site going to 3 routers with 3 wan links to 3 remote sites you should have something like this

192.168.1.101 ------10.0.0.1 ------10.0.0.2 ---192.168.2.102
-------10.0.0.3-------192.168.3.103
---------10.0.0.4-----192.168.4.140

if you have one central site that connects to the other 3 you should have a routing statement in your routers that point 10.0.0.1 to 10.0.0.2 to access the 192.168.2.102 network etc

you should also make sure your gateway is correct on your repeaters so they can route properly...

or is your network daisy chained where 10.0.0.1 ------10.0.0.2------------10.0.0.3----------10.0.0.4

Could you please provide your models of routers and how your wan is linked so that i can provide you a correct answer?

Thanks
I have 4 TPLink routers, one for each site.

I have an HP ProCurv switch. The WAN port for each router is plugged into the ProCurv.

Those are the 10.0.0.x ip numbers. If I assign my laptop 10.0.0.100, I can ping 10.0.0.1,2,3 and 4. I cannot ping, nor should I be able to ping, the individual internal addresses of the repeaters. The peer repeaters can be set for DHCP and get their ip numbers from the router. I have everything static.

If I plug my laptop into any out the routers, I get a DHCP ip number in the appropriate 192.168.x.x scope and I am able to ping all external addresses of all 4 routers.

Posts #8 and #12 in this thread lay out most of the configuration. The routers are pretty basic, much like a netgear, dlink or linksys.
 

sirsmiley

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Does the Motorola system use multicast? Or is it unicast UDP traffic? It should be unicast but it might not be....

Any particular reason you are not using something a little beefier for a router? Id be very hesitant to use a tplink for anything in a professional environment. A small cisco ASA like an 5505 base model would be ideal and you could quickly setup ipsec vpns to secure your traffic. They run about $400 a piece brand new.

I have a friend that has a few tplink routers and he has to reboot them daily at his house...not what i would recommend for a radio install....

From the sounds of it you are using just the 10. addresses to point all your traffic on your wan interface which is then forwarded inside.

Are you dmzing these are just port forwarding? I am a networking guy not a motorola guy so im not sure in the motorola system if you require a special port for management of the system for the main site
your 10. addresses it sounds like youll be using microwave links ?
 

N1GTL

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I have tried leaving the master static and setting the peers for DHCP. The same thing happens.

The HP switch is in the $700 range. I can't just get one not even knowing that it will work.

I have conflicting documentation from Motorola. One document said the Cisco 5505 will NOT work on LCP. An email from tech support stated the HP MSR2020 and the Cisco 5505 WILL work with LCP.

*I'm not 100% on the Cisco model number but whatever it is, it was conflicting. All my papers are at work now and I'm home.

Thanks to all for suggestions and following this lengthy thread.
 

N1GTL

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Does the Motorola system use multicast? Or is it unicast UDP traffic? It should be unicast but it might not be....

Any particular reason you are not using something a little beefier for a router? Id be very hesitant to use a tplink for anything in a professional environment. A small cisco ASA like an 5505 base model would be ideal and you could quickly setup ipsec vpns to secure your traffic. They run about $400 a piece brand new.

I have a friend that has a few tplink routers and he has to reboot them daily at his house...not what i would recommend for a radio install....

From the sounds of it you are using just the 10. addresses to point all your traffic on your wan interface which is then forwarded inside.

Are you dmzing these are just port forwarding? I am a networking guy not a motorola guy so im not sure in the motorola system if you require a special port for management of the system for the main site
your 10. addresses it sounds like youll be using microwave links ?
The TPlinks are not for the field, they are just for bench testing.

The 10.0.0.x likewise is for bench testing. There are tons of features the customer wants (tx interrupt, kill and re-enable, all call across all talk groups and more). I want to get the LCP running completely on the bench before deploying them all over the city then having to go back and make changes.

A few are microwave hops, others fiber.
 

sirsmiley

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A cisco asa 5505 will work with all traffic including multicast. I use them for a number of radio site links. The only time a cisco asa would not work is if it was multicast traffic inside of an ipsec vpn. To do multicast over ipsec you need to encapsulate it in a gre tunnel which youre better off using a router as it can handle the ipec and gre all in one but its a bit more expensive.

It definitely sounds like a motorola programming thing at this point if you can ping from your local master subnet to your other sites however. The only thing I can think of is try DMZing your 4 sites inwards to the repeaters instead of port forwarding just to see if there are extra ports that are being blocked by you forwarding just the udp ports for the site link traffic. a DMZ test should rule out the network side of things pretty quickly, especially since you have them on a bench and youre just using network cables to simulate your wan link. Can you also check your switch and routers to see if youre getting 100megabit full duplex across all your links. A half duplex connection could cause problems if the autonegotiate is failing.

You might want to also check the TPLink routers to see if there is some sort of filtering on the wan link port as well.
 

sirsmiley

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Just for kicks can you reprogram your 4 sites repeaters to have their 10. address and plug them into your hp switch and set aside the tplink routers for now?

I would make sure your sites are talking properly with the 10.0.0.X network first and then add the routers back in.

The site peers are already programmed in with your wan addresses of 10.0.0.X i would just go and reprogram each repeater from the 192.168.X.X to its proper 10.0.0.X wan address...plug in your laptop on 10.0.0.100 and see if all traffic is working across your motorola site first. If it is, then you can put the routers back in. If not, then you can rule it a motorola programming issue :)
 

N1GTL

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Just for kicks can you reprogram your 4 sites repeaters to have their 10. address and plug them into your hp switch and set aside the tplink routers for now?

I would make sure your sites are talking properly with the 10.0.0.X network first and then add the routers back in.

The site peers are already programmed in with your wan addresses of 10.0.0.X i would just go and reprogram each repeater from the 192.168.X.X to its proper 10.0.0.X wan address...plug in your laptop on 10.0.0.100 and see if all traffic is working across your motorola site first. If it is, then you can put the routers back in. If not, then you can rule it a motorola programming issue :)
I did put all 4 repeaters in their respective DMZ. No change.

As far as reprogramming them all for the 10.0.0.x network, that was the first way I tried setting it up.

Repeater A 10.0.0.1
Repeater B 10.0.0.2
Repeater C 10.0.0.3
Repeater D 10.0.0.4

Each was plugged directly into the HP switch. B, C and D were pointing to A as the master. The moment I did this, the repeaters went into a constant reboot cycle. They just sat there and kept rebooting. The documentation from M addresses this. Each site MUST be behind its own router. I also tried two other switches to make sure there wasn't a VLAN set up or some other crazy programming in the switch I missed. I tried a simple cheap unmanaged netgear switch I had sitting around.

For this reason, you cannot really create a VPN tunnel between locations and have them all on the same subnet. They'd start rebooting themselves.

IP site connect is very straight forward. Public IP, port forward UDP 50000 (default) to the repeater and it works perfect. I've done it.

Likewise setting up Capacity Plus with multiple repeaters at a single site works perfectly. Did that too.

Linked Capacity Plus is a combo of the two. I did speak to a tech in another state who set up a 6 or 8 site system and was having similar issues. Once he used the HP MSR2020, everything worked.
 

sirsmiley

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The reboot thing seems to be because of broadcast domains, it might be using multicast....and its constantly cycling between repeaters as theyre in the same subnet it might see each other and fight over who is active.

do you have a router such as an cisco 87X (they can be had used for about 40 dollars)? These have multiple ports that you could configure 4 ports on 4 subnets and itll automatically route between them

you could do something like 10.10.1.x 2.x 3.x and 4.x with the router being 1.1 2.1 3.1 4.1 and same ip used for the gateways of each repeater...

i cant see why a specific brand of switch would resolve anything..seems odd....

do you have a manual for the setup of this you could send me?
 

mikewazowski

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I'd dump the TP-Link routers.

I had one which would randomly disconnect from WAN. It was still pingable from the LAN but wouldn't pass traffic to the WAN.
Rebooting or renewing the DHCP lease would fix it for a random amount of time.
I'm not sure if it was a DHCP issue or bouncing the DHCP merely solved another problem.
 

Firebuff880

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First -- This showed up over the weekend --

MOTOTRBO CPS 10.7 Build 580 (29 Aug 2014 Zip File 783MB)

Use to program: MTR3000 and XPR8000’s Repeaters - firmware version R02.30.20
CP200d, CM200d, CM300d, XPR2500 - firmware version R01.00.30
XPR3000’s, XPR5000’s, XPR7000’s and SL7000’s - firmware version R02.30.21
XPR4000’s and XPR6000’s – firmware version R01.12.13 Supports Windows 8 and Windows 7,(Home or Professional)
NOTE: MOTOTRBO EID’s purchased after December 23rd 2013 require CPS version 10.0 or later to Register and Activate.

====================

Second --

As was pointed out by com501 on another forum the IPs and the Port Numbers need to be unique --

Capacity Plus Trunking Issue
 

JRayfield

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I have an LCP system up and running just fine - 4 sites, with two voice repeaters at each site and a third data repeater at three of the sites. The Master site also has a satellite receiver site connect to it.

Last I heard from engineers at Motorola, the Cisco ASA5500- series Security Appliances will not work with LCP. Some of Motorola's top engineers have tried to get them to work and have been unsuccessful, and they can't even figure out why they won't work.

I haven't tried any TPLink routers with LCP, but I couldn't even get one of those to work with a VoIP phone system, so I wouldn't hold my breath with LCP.

I've used Netgear FVS-381G routers/firewalls and they will work, if set up properly, and if they've got 'good' firmware in them (I ran into a problem with this model, not working with VoIP with the newest firmware). I'm also using Mikrotik routers, and so far, I like them the best. They're harder to set up than something like a Netgear. I've tried one of those at the Master site, and I'm running one at one of the Peer sites. So far, so good.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications

A cisco asa 5505 will work with all traffic including multicast. I use them for a number of radio site links. The only time a cisco asa would not work is if it was multicast traffic inside of an ipsec vpn. To do multicast over ipsec you need to encapsulate it in a gre tunnel which youre better off using a router as it can handle the ipec and gre all in one but its a bit more expensive.

It definitely sounds like a motorola programming thing at this point if you can ping from your local master subnet to your other sites however. The only thing I can think of is try DMZing your 4 sites inwards to the repeaters instead of port forwarding just to see if there are extra ports that are being blocked by you forwarding just the udp ports for the site link traffic. a DMZ test should rule out the network side of things pretty quickly, especially since you have them on a bench and youre just using network cables to simulate your wan link. Can you also check your switch and routers to see if youre getting 100megabit full duplex across all your links. A half duplex connection could cause problems if the autonegotiate is failing.

You might want to also check the TPLink routers to see if there is some sort of filtering on the wan link port as well.
 
Last edited:

JRayfield

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If you want to give me a call this coming week, feel free to do so. I'll be out of the office some, but I can get back with you if you leave a message. Just google my company name to find me.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications
Springfield, MO


I did put all 4 repeaters in their respective DMZ. No change.

As far as reprogramming them all for the 10.0.0.x network, that was the first way I tried setting it up.

Repeater A 10.0.0.1
Repeater B 10.0.0.2
Repeater C 10.0.0.3
Repeater D 10.0.0.4

Each was plugged directly into the HP switch. B, C and D were pointing to A as the master. The moment I did this, the repeaters went into a constant reboot cycle. They just sat there and kept rebooting. The documentation from M addresses this. Each site MUST be behind its own router. I also tried two other switches to make sure there wasn't a VLAN set up or some other crazy programming in the switch I missed. I tried a simple cheap unmanaged netgear switch I had sitting around.

For this reason, you cannot really create a VPN tunnel between locations and have them all on the same subnet. They'd start rebooting themselves.

IP site connect is very straight forward. Public IP, port forward UDP 50000 (default) to the repeater and it works perfect. I've done it.

Likewise setting up Capacity Plus with multiple repeaters at a single site works perfectly. Did that too.

Linked Capacity Plus is a combo of the two. I did speak to a tech in another state who set up a 6 or 8 site system and was having similar issues. Once he used the HP MSR2020, everything worked.
 

G6GFA

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Hi all,

I have four LCP systems running here in the UK using Draytek routers (2820, 2830 and 2860), one two site, two three site and a five site all with TRBOnet. I use VPN when connecting sites via the internet, the Draytek's have the option to block multicast over VPN and with this selected they work just fine.

For microwave linked sites i use port forwarding. The ports need to be forwarded on peer sites as well as the master otherwise the router doesn't preserve port numbering and it all goes a bit strange.

The only major difference i can see is that i normally connect the routers on each site with an additional 'WAN' router rather than a switch, the WAN gateway address of the site routers is then set to the LAN address of the WAN router. The WAN side of the 'WAN' router can then be connected to the internet for remote access if required.

That said, it does sound like the network is working as you can see all repeaters on RDAC but it is very odd that the master is doing its own thing. It sounds more like a Motorola problem than a networking issue, having said that, some very odd things happen if the router isn't up to the job (i have a box full which turned out to be unsuitable).

What do you have the master repeater IP address set to in the master itself, i.e. is it pointing back to its own local address or to the WAN side of the site router?

Cheers,

Pete
 

sirsmiley

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Can you hook all your sites up to the one procurve master switch and put them all in the same subnet? Then use unique ports for each site. Once its working you can reintroduce the multiple subnets once youve ruled out the network side.
 

JRayfield

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Linked Capacity Plus will not operate properly with all sites on the same subnet.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

Can you hook all your sites up to the one procurve master switch and put them all in the same subnet? Then use unique ports for each site. Once its working you can reintroduce the multiple subnets once youve ruled out the network side.
 

N1GTL

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First -- This showed up over the weekend --

MOTOTRBO CPS 10.7 Build 580 (29 Aug 2014 Zip File 783MB)

Use to program: MTR3000 and XPR8000’s Repeaters - firmware version R02.30.20
CP200d, CM200d, CM300d, XPR2500 - firmware version R01.00.30
XPR3000’s, XPR5000’s, XPR7000’s and SL7000’s - firmware version R02.30.21
XPR4000’s and XPR6000’s – firmware version R01.12.13 Supports Windows 8 and Windows 7,(Home or Professional)
NOTE: MOTOTRBO EID’s purchased after December 23rd 2013 require CPS version 10.0 or later to Register and Activate.

====================

Second --

As was pointed out by com501 on another forum the IPs and the Port Numbers need to be unique --

Capacity Plus Trunking Issue
Thanks for the heads up on the MOL weekend update. Will check that later in the week. I'm on another project the next couple days.

Every IP number and port number is unique. Nothing is reused, even behind the routers.
 
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