Linked capacity plus not working

[N1GTL]

What do you have the master repeater IP address set to in the master itself, i.e. is it pointing back to its own local address or to the WAN side of the site router?

Cheers,

Pete

I have tried it set to its internal address, 192.168.1.101. I have tried it set to its external addresses, 10.0.0.1 with the same results.

 

[N1GTL]

Linked Capacity Plus will not operate properly with all sites on the same subnet.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

Absolutely agree. It when haywire when I tried.

I am on the road with projects a few days this week. If I get time while in the office, I may take you up in the phone support offer.

Thanks

 

[sirsmiley]

is your switch layer 3 capable of doing routing so it can handle all the subnets across different vlans for a test?

 

[G6GFA]

I have tried it set to its internal address, 192.168.1.101. I have tried it set to its external addresses, 10.0.0.1 with the same results.

It sounds to me like a NAT loopback problem with the router.

The repeater side of a master repeater exactly the same as that of a peer, the only difference is that the registration service is also running on the master. The repeater side of the master still has to connect to its own registration service via the IP connection (i.e. there is no internal link between the two). It sounds like the peers are connecting ok but the master is unable to connect to the service and is running is standalone mode.

The later firmware versions are supposed to allow the master repeater address to be set to its own local address but i've never had much success with that. I have to say i haven't spent a lot of time trying as the routers i've used support NAT loopback so i've always set it to the WAN address of the master router.

The other thing i have found with some routers is that they don't always preserve the port numbering across the NAT which can cause odd things to happen. The easiest way to check this is to set the repeaters up to allow IP programming (if they aren't already), then connect to the master repeater over IP with the CPS and attempt to read. The CPS will then come up with a list of repeaters with their idents, IP addresses and port numbers. Check that the incoming port numbers seen by the master agree with what is set in the repeaters.

 

[JRayfield]

Sounds like you've seen some of the sames things that we have (and learned things that aren't in the System Planner <G>).

The latest firmware does indeed work with non-hairpinning (non-NAT loopback) routers. Our LCP system is working fine with several different brands/models of routers and I don't think any of them can 'hairpin'.

I've also seen the problem with port numbering changing. In fact, we had this problem with an IPSC system recently. Some routers are terrible for this. On an IPSC system, our c-Bridge will also show the port numbers that are in the peer tables for each repeater. I've even seen cases where the port numbers shown in the CPS IP Remote Programming did not match the port numbers as reported in the c-Bridge. That system was really messed up at that point.

I've been trying out the Mikrotik routers, lately. So far, they're working 100% perfectly on our LCP system. I'm going to put them on a 5-site IPSC system, too, and see how they do.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

It sounds to me like a NAT loopback problem with the router.

The repeater side of a master repeater exactly the same as that of a peer, the only difference is that the registration service is also running on the master. The repeater side of the master still has to connect to its own registration service via the IP connection (i.e. there is no internal link between the two). It sounds like the peers are connecting ok but the master is unable to connect to the service and is running is standalone mode.

The later firmware versions are supposed to allow the master repeater address to be set to its own local address but i've never had much success with that. I have to say i haven't spent a lot of time trying as the routers i've used support NAT loopback so i've always set it to the WAN address of the master router.

The other thing i have found with some routers is that they don't always preserve the port numbering across the NAT which can cause odd things to happen. The easiest way to check this is to set the repeaters up to allow IP programming (if they aren't already), then connect to the master repeater over IP with the CPS and attempt to read. The CPS will then come up with a list of repeaters with their idents, IP addresses and port numbers. Check that the incoming port numbers seen by the master agree with what is set in the repeaters.

 

[G6GFA]

Sounds like you've seen some of the sames things that we have (and learned things that aren't in the System Planner <G>).

The latest firmware does indeed work with non-hairpinning (non-NAT loopback) routers. Our LCP system is working fine with several different brands/models of routers and I don't think any of them can 'hairpin'.

I've also seen the problem with port numbering changing. In fact, we had this problem with an IPSC system recently. Some routers are terrible for this. On an IPSC system, our c-Bridge will also show the port numbers that are in the peer tables for each repeater. I've even seen cases where the port numbers shown in the CPS IP Remote Programming did not match the port numbers as reported in the c-Bridge. That system was really messed up at that point.

I've been trying out the Mikrotik routers, lately. So far, they're working 100% perfectly on our LCP system. I'm going to put them on a 5-site IPSC system, too, and see how they do.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

Hi,

Yes i probably have the same system planner as you. I work for a Motorola agent over here and went on a Motorola LCP 'update' course a few months ago but i see in the latest literature that things have now moved on further and LCP now works with a 'Non-NAT router' which i take to mean a switch in this context. I've not tried it yet myself although i am working on a new system at the moment and may give it a go if i get time. As far as the non-hairpinning router goes, i have a feeling the Motorola bit worked but the TRBOnet server didn't want to connect when it was set up that way. It was a while ago and i've just set the subsequent systems up the same way.

I use Draytek routers, mainly because i had a couple kicking about at the time and they seemed to work well and aren't too expensive. They also run on 12V which is useful if battery backup is required. The only peculiarity i've found with them is that you have to port forward the peers otherwise the port numbering gets messed up.

 

[leonardog]

HI!. Has anyone been able to use Mikrotik routers? I've searched through this post and saw that someone has done it. So far I've had luck with Netgear and Cisco routers for this.

 

[JRayfield]

I've also been using Netgear FVS-318G routers and those have worked ok on my LCP system, in most cases.

I tried using a Netgear DM111PV2 DSL Modem/Router on an IPSC system and had trouble with those changing the port numbers. That caused problems, so I put the repeater in the DMZ and that has worked to keep port numbers from changing, however, I'm still having some problems that I think are related to the number of simultaneous sessions (connections) that a DM111PV2 can support.

I've been trying the Mikrotik on my LCP system and so far, those are working great. I put an RB2011iL on the main site, for a test, and it worked fine. I then set up a Netgear DM111PV2, in Modem Mode (no routing, NAT,etc) and connected it to a Mikrotik RB750 at one of the Peer sites and it's working fine, too.

For the IPSC system where I'm still having some problems, I'm going to use the DM111PV2's in Modem Mode with an RB750 or RB750L and see if that corrects the rest of the problems in that system.

I love the Mikrotik routers and at this point, I'm planning on eventually replacing everything else that I'm using with Mikrotik.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

HI!. Has anyone been able to use Mikrotik routers? I've searched through this post and saw that someone has done it. So far I've had luck with Netgear and Cisco routers for this.

 

[Larrybl]

LCP FSB 10904

Have you seen the latest SRN about this?
FSB NUMBER: FSB10904
BULLETIN TYPE: Informational Only
MODEL / SYSTEM AFFECTED:
MOTOTRBO™ IPSC or MOTOTRBO™
ConnectPlus systems that sends call traffic to users using the repeater IPSC protocol, when the application or the repeaters in the same subnet have a peer ID that is larger than the sites with a single peer repeater.
• MTR3000 – all regions
• XiR 8200, XiR R8200 – APAC
• DR3000 – EMEA
• DGR6175 – LA
• XPR 8300, XPR 8380, XPR 8400 – NA

CAUSE:
The repeater is not able to resolve the MAC address for the gateway IP, after resolving the MAC address for the repeater on the same subnet.
WORKAROUND:
1. Do NOT upgrade to the repeaters to R2.3 if you are using a MOTOTRBO™ IP Site Connect System OR a MOTOTRBO™ Connect Plus System that sends call traffic information using the repeater’s IP Site Connect protocol.
2. On systems that use 3rd party applications configure the application’s peer ID of the repeaters on the same subnet to be greater than the peer ID of the single repeaters on different subnets.
3. On systems that do not use 3rd party applications configure the radio ID of the repeaters on the same subnet to be greater than the peer ID of the single repeaters on different subnets.
Workaround #2 and #3 will not work on a system that has more than one subnet with multiple repeaters.
RESOLUTION:
1. Contact the MOTOTRBO™ Call Center to request a downgrade package for all the repeaters in the system to prior to R2.3.
2. Upgrade the radio firmware to version R2.3A, or later version, which can be downloaded from the MOL webpage. https://businessonline.motorolasolutions.com/Member/ContentManagement/resourcecenter.asp

 

[leonardog]

I've also been using Netgear FVS-318G routers and those have worked ok on my LCP system, in most cases.

I tried using a Netgear DM111PV2 DSL Modem/Router on an IPSC system and had trouble with those changing the port numbers. That caused problems, so I put the repeater in the DMZ and that has worked to keep port numbers from changing, however, I'm still having some problems that I think are related to the number of simultaneous sessions (connections) that a DM111PV2 can support.

I've been trying the Mikrotik on my LCP system and so far, those are working great. I put an RB2011iL on the main site, for a test, and it worked fine. I then set up a Netgear DM111PV2, in Modem Mode (no routing, NAT,etc) and connected it to a Mikrotik RB750 at one of the Peer sites and it's working fine, too.

For the IPSC system where I'm still having some problems, I'm going to use the DM111PV2's in Modem Mode with an RB750 or RB750L and see if that corrects the rest of the problems in that system.

I love the Mikrotik routers and at this point, I'm planning on eventually replacing everything else that I'm using with Mikrotik.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

CPudl you give me some advice setting up the NAT in the Mikrotik routers? so far I've not been able to set up a remote peer in a public network (internet). I've read a lot of NAT wikis but no luck so far. I can see the stablished state in connections but it seems that the Mikrotik is not masquerading the outgoing connections properly as I can see in my NAT table internal addreses (in the remote peer).

Thanks,

 

[JRayfield]

I'm going to put together a 'cheat sheet', with the configuration parameters that I use, to make it faster for me to set one up (I'm still not familiar enough with them to set one up without looking at one that I've already got set up properly <G>). When I get this done, I'll let you know and I can then email it to you.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

CPudl you give me some advice setting up the NAT in the Mikrotik routers? so far I've not been able to set up a remote peer in a public network (internet). I've read a lot of NAT wikis but no luck so far. I can see the stablished state in connections but it seems that the Mikrotik is not masquerading the outgoing connections properly as I can see in my NAT table internal addreses (in the remote peer).

Thanks,

 

[leonardog]

I'm going to put together a 'cheat sheet', with the configuration parameters that I use, to make it faster for me to set one up (I'm still not familiar enough with them to set one up without looking at one that I've already got set up properly <G>). When I get this done, I'll let you know and I can then email it to you.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
Rayfield Communications

Thanks in advance, I am having trouble setting this through a DSL network (internet), I usually set them over private point to point wireless links.

 

[speedway_navigator]

@ N1GTL - According to our turbo guru "You have to increase the beacon duration and shorten the interval."

We've seen this more than once, especially as the # of repeaters increases.

 

[Firebuff880]

So Jim,

Did you ever find the magic formula ?

============================

 

[N1GTL]

@ N1GTL - According to our turbo guru "You have to increase the beacon duration and shorten the interval."

We've seen this more than once, especially as the # of repeaters increases.

I've been out sick for 4 days as well as stretched between a few projects. It seems like an easy enough setting to test but I won't get to it until next week .

Will follow up with results.

Jim

 

[N1GTL]

This thread has been dormant for a while but I am following up to thank all who offered assistance. I spent some time out sick and then this project was tabled for some other things I had to work on. I also want the resolution posted for anyone who might come across this same issue.

The issue has been resolved as of yesterday. I think there were a combination of problems that spanned older and newer firmware. Had I tried this right after upgrading to R02.30.12, I would have found it sooner.

The problem appears to have been in the programming of the master repeater. The master requires that you put in a static IP Address for the repeater itself as well as the IP Address of the master. If the repeater is the master, it gets it own IP Address. The local IP Address of the master was 192.168.1.101 on the LAN side. That was also the IP Address I was telling it was the master. That was wrong. The repeater wanted to see it's EXTERNAL address as the master, which was 10.0.0.1. So in short, the repeater was programmed with 192.168.1.101 as it's IP and 10.0.0.1 as the master and it worked fine.

A few side notes.....

I emailed the codeplugs to Motorola, who confirmed they were correct. That was wrong!

I cannot recall the original firmware of the repeater but prior to 2.2, a router with hair-pin natting was required. I did try this configuration that now works originally but may not have tried it after upgrading to R02.30.12.

I obtained an HP MSR 20-20 router, which is the router Motorola recommends and has tested with the LCP system. I followed the CLI and GUI programming EXACTLY as specified and the router not only did not work, it didn't allow the three peers to register or communication between themselves.

The original TP-LINK, $20 routers are working perfectly.

Again, thanks to all who offered assistance. As I mentioned, due to illness and being needed on other projects, I have not been working on this since my last post, over 6 weeks ago.

 

[rtempleton]

Mikrotik configuration

I realize I’m resurrecting an old thread here, but would someone be willing to offer guidance on setting up Mikrotik routers on a Capacity Plus Multisite system. A router setup config cheat sheet would be extremely helpful.

 

[N1GTL]

Wow, I remember starting this thread. My first LCP system. A dozen later and I can do it in my sleep.

rtempleton: Are you using public Internet to connect these or a closed, private network?

 

[rtempleton]

It's a closed Private Network. The Customer has set aside a dedicated radio subnet.

My 2 Mikrotik RB750GR3 routers just arrived today, and I am working on setting them up.

 

[JRayfield]

I'm going to be tied up tomorrow all day, but if you'll give me a call on Thursday, I'll run through the setup with you for the Mikrotik routers. I won't use anything but those on a MOTOTRBO system of any kind. They work and they keep working.

You can get the phone number from off of our website.

John Rayfield, Jr.
www.rayfield.net