Listen while you can

[steve888]

Wish They Would Stop Streaming

As much as I support the First Amendment, I really wish online streaming would go away. If the real reason that DCMPD and other departments are going with encryption is because the bad guys are streaming police traffic on mobile phones, then streaming really represents a threat for serious hobbyists.

I used to have a scanner years ago and I'm getting ready to get back into the hobby with a PSR-800 or BCD996XT, but now I'm really starting to think that the days of scanning are numbered.

I know that it would probably take years for all the police and EMS departments to go fully encrypted, but it sounds like it's getting cheaper and easier for them to do so every day.

If the only people scanning police frequencies were law-abiding enthusiasts, I don't really think we'd even be having this conversation right now.

I hope the day never arrives where we can't listen anymore

 

[JoeyC]

Not to argue, but the point being made is that if the app was working in their favor, they wouldn't have been caught in the first place.

Dewey

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter whether an app or streaming is effective in helping someone get away with a crime. What matters is the law enforcement community has taken notice, the potential is there, and those that have the power are making the changes to ensure that their traffic is unmonitorable.

 

[JoeyC]

The evidence (number of official feeds) still weighs strongly towards streaming. Never said that everyone loved it. But more love it than hate it.

Apparently I am missing something. Last I noticed there were a handful of official feeds and hundreds provided by scanner listeners. Do those hundreds have the blessings of the agencies they are rebroadcasting?

 

[Chris45]

Agree with Steve888

I have been in the communications field for over 40 years. I will guarantee that all the streaming of PD communications to whatever the device, has fueled the fire for the destruction of the hobby. Police chiefs only need to demonstrate (and it is easy to do) that anyone, escpecially the bad guys can now (effortlessly) hear all their communications. Wake up, smell the roses, and see the reality. Before the streaming it was very difficult to justify the associated expense to totally encrypt a system. But now, thanks to the live-broadcasting of police business to the world, the arguement for encryption is well justified.

As much as I support the First Amendment, I really wish online streaming would go away. If the real reason that DCMPD and other departments are going with encryption is because the bad guys are streaming police traffic on mobile phones, then streaming really represents a threat for serious hobbyists.

I used to have a scanner years ago and I'm getting ready to get back into the hobby with a PSR-800 or BCD996XT, but now I'm really starting to think that the days of scanning are numbered.

I know that it would probably take years for all the police and EMS departments to go fully encrypted, but it sounds like it's getting cheaper and easier for them to do so every day.

If the only people scanning police frequencies were law-abiding enthusiasts, I don't really think we'd even be having this conversation right now.

I hope the day never arrives where we can't listen anymore

 

[Bob_61]

Sad reality,so sad

 

[PJH]

Actually, streaming as "high profile" as it seems to be alluded to, is not really the big push. Digital voice has, and the expense of implementing a secure system is next to nothing. As stated before, Moto radios can be had with ADP encyption for as little as $10 per radio when bought new.

Prior to this, hardware modules for the radios (remember, PER radio) were upwards of $300 or more which really drives up costs, nevermind the voters, repeaters, site infrastruture, keyloaders, DIU's, etc. Voice and range concerns also kept widespread encyption at bay.

Now, none of those hurdles really exists. Now its just a matter of loading a key into the software (with software ADP at least), program the radio and go. Turn key. Its a selling point, and it sells well.

 

[rdale]

Last I noticed there were a handful of official feeds

More official feeds than officials who have encrypted because of feeds.

 

[CalebATC]

More official feeds than officials who have encrypted because of feeds.

Dont ya wish?

Streaming, in my opinion, is the problem. It's alot easier to pickup and Iphone, or Droid (or other mobile device) and find one of the hundreds of Scanner apps than it is for someone to go spend money on a $100+ scanner, then program all the frequencies, and then deal with trunking if applicable.

Streaming of police feeds, in my opinion, is one of the big reasons why. They wouldn't be complaining about the easy accesability if they weren't there....

My two cents, I'll leave this forum... no use for me to go on about my opinion....

 

[PJH]

Nah, I don't think it really is. As someone who was involved in a statewide digital system that had clear and coded channels, we never were bothered with it. Users were taught to use secure channels when needed.

If someone is committing a crime, they are going to be commiting such crime. Even if they were able to get a heads up of 1 to 5mins, in the end it didn't make much of a difference in our case.

If your doing survelience on a tac/repeated or otherwise unsecure channel, then your the dumbass, bluntley.

There are far more news/hobbiest/grandma's listening to the police than the criminals. I stand by my orignal post. The cost drop was a huge factor. The rest are just good excuses. If you want to hear the PoPo, file for a FOI release on the radio tapes.

 

[CORN]

I'm in agreement with the last statements. DC government has had a love affair with banning things so why don't they just ban the scanner apps or live feeds rather than waste money on encryption (encryption does cost money) and spend most of their time fighting crime. Although they suck at it. Had a handgun ban and was still called "The Murder Capitol of the World". My love affair is milair/milcomms and even though we don't get squat for cool milcomms here in Nashville thank goodness I live in Tennessee. One of the remaining FREE states out there.

 

[riflemin]

"Officer Safety" trumps PUBLIC Safety?

As a Security Officer there were times I wished our comms were encrypted, but NOT full time. Knowing there were scanner listeners among or community was a positive IMHO if we broadcast a BOLO. While on that job I heard a BOLO by Texas DPS and later that day I came in contact w/ the subjects ON OUR CAMPUS several hundred miles from their last known location! So what about the safety of the GENERAL PUBLIC or OFFICERS of nearby agencies who are denied access to such information. These Public Officials claiming "officer safety" need (a dope slap&) an education about the value of scanners to PUBLIC SAFETY!!! In these forums I read arguments against streaming, which seem bogus to me, since I routinely listen to feeds provided by agencies themselves, for instance the Delaware State Police. Due to "Irene" I was anxious to hear comms in DE,MD &PA where my relatives live. So thanks to DSP and other feed providers.

IMHO we greatly err in calling this a "HOBBY". The arguments for/against scanners is parrallel to those for/against personal ownership of firearms and handguns. I never hear firearm advocates argue that gun ownership is just a HOBBY. The use of firearms by criminals motivates some misguided folks to want to ban guns, period. If scanners were on their radar they would want to ban them too, Ya think? While we're at it why not make motor vehicles illegal - criminals misuse them!

The law should penalize use of a scanner in the commission of a crime. Making simple possesion/use in all other situations is a matter of "guilty until prven innocent". You MIGHT use it to committ a crime, so GOVT makes it illegal. Simple redifines law abbiding folks as criminals. This has gotta be unconstitutional. Sidestepping all that, it's easier for LE to just encrypt it all. Longview PD has some encrypted TGs but officers commonly conduct surveliance, and searches w/out enc - and its available on any TG AFAIK. I would like to stream LPD including these TGs b/c they are used for incidents like major wrecks, and other incidents that the public should be informed about. But I don't want to stream stuff that should be enc. I agree w/ previous post - if LE is txing sensitive comms in the clear when enc is available its their own fault. But MOST comms are NOT sensitive. FYI the Records CheckTG (PD2) is enc and I totally aggree w/ that since personal info (SSAN) are txed haphazardly by many LE agencies.

I use my scanners for PERSONAL SAFETY. SEVERAL (!) TIMES I'VE BEEN SAVED FROM BODILY HARM OR DEATH BECAUSE OF INFO I MONITORED ON MY SCANNER!! I've also assisted LE and FF a few times based on info heard via scanner. NOBODY can rely on the News Media to provide timely, accurate info in time of need such as when severe weather is hitting your community, or when a Pursuit is winding your way while your out driving, or an armed subject is loose in your Apt complex or Dorm. Many times, incidents I've monitored were later reported inaccurately by News Media - maybe due to P.I.O. or agency spokesperson "spinning" the story?

Recently I've had unpleasant contacts w/ LE and have LOST respect for them. I have NO doubt that many LE would rather operate w/out us hearing their unproffessional comments or hear them violating citizens' rights.

The majority of FF and LE officers I've been in contact with view SCANNER users as either "wanabes", kooks, or criminals. WE need to dispell this stereotype. I wish there was a thread for stories of how your scanner was used a posiive tool.

I think that all coms will eventually become unmonitorable as technology advances. I work in the industry and have tested equipment destine for various radio systems.

 

[dc2wheel]

It's official:

D.C. Police To Encrypt Radio Communications - News - WAMU 88.5 FM - American University Radio

MPD is going encrypted some time in September.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

The link you posted was already posted on Post #54 on page 3.

It's official:
D.C. Police To Encrypt Radio Communications - News - WAMU 88.5 FM - American University Radio
MPD is going encrypted some time in September.

 

[WX4JCW]

Honestly encryption only serves as a tool to punish honest listeners, yes Ot may protect us from small time bad guys but let's face it, it is to limit a departments liability plain and simple, if I was a high level dealer or terrorist do you really need to monitor communications, not really, just set up a network of lookouts with their own encrypted radios, if done properly swat will be seen well before they get close, and distrust of law enforcement is growing so setting up a network wouldn't be that difficult
Besides everyone has a price


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=35.460268,-97.593099
Jason WX4JCW
Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk

 

[northscan23]

It says in the article some channels may stay in the clear. Maybe DC will keep the dispatch groups open? But anyway I think it is an issue that the media groups need to address. I could see the issue of encryption going all the way to congress or the supreme court.

 

[steve888]

I Agree

I've lived in the DC area since 1985 and I can't remember a single incident where an officer was injured or killed due to a criminal monitoring police traffic on a scanner. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I honestly think it's very, very rare.

I really think it's a situation where the police want to operate in total secrecy (which should scare the heck out of anyone who believes in democracy and a free society). If you look at countries like North Korea, Syria, Iran, China and other places where human rights violations occur on a regular basis and citizens have few freedoms, they all have one thing in common: the police and military operate in total secrecy with little or no accountability. We are heading down that path more and more every day if you ask me.

Honestly encryption only serves as a tool to punish honest listeners, yes Ot may protect us from small time bad guys but let's face it, it is to limit a departments liability plain and simple, if I was a high level dealer or terrorist do you really need to monitor communications, not really, just set up a network of lookouts with their own encrypted radios, if done properly swat will be seen well before they get close, and distrust of law enforcement is growing so setting up a network wouldn't be that difficult
Besides everyone has a price


---
I am here: Google Maps
Jason WX4JCW
Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk

 

[steve888]

Where is the Washington Post?

It says in the article some channels may stay in the clear. Maybe DC will keep the dispatch groups open? But anyway I think it is an issue that the media groups need to address. I could see the issue of encryption going all the way to congress or the supreme court.

I'm really surprised that the Post is not up in arms about this. They are one of the most well known papers in the country and I haven't heard a thing from them about this. I hope this does end up in the courts somehow and gets decided there. Law abiding citizens should be allowed to listen to police traffic (unless it's something highly sensitive that could jeopardize an investigation or an officer's safety).

 

[brownlab]

Will someone give us a heads up when the encryption starts? Today is September 10 and I have not detected any testing yet of the new system (which does not mean anything) plus I do not monitor DC that much to begin with. I called a friend at the Washington Post but they do not seem to care. They will unless the Chief lets them have a couple of radios which is doubtful.

 

[ka3jjz]

According to Scan-DC it's supposed to start on the 15th. And there is, AFAIK, no 'new system' - it's just turning on encryption on talkgroups....given the budget crunches most areas are under, I doubt seriously that they're going to change things. There may have been some upgrades on the repeaters and controllers, but that's likely about it. best regards...Mike

 

[northscan23]

I think that the solution would be that state goverments or the feds could pass laws that would make it completely illegal to broadcast law enforcement comms online. Another solution would be modify the EPCA law so that media organizations could listen to some encrypted radio trafficff(with the exception of the Secret Service, CIA etc.).