Lithium ion batteries start fire on ship

[buddrousa]

Per GM if a GM EV catches fire from the battery the minimum Gallons Per Minute to COOL the BATTERY and to PUT the fire out is 500 GPM.
Most pumpers have 500 Gallon Tanks some 1000 Gallons. You are looking at a HYDRANT WATER SUPPLY and up to 10000 Gallons of water or more. This info came from a GM EV Fire Class taught to our department. The battery generates heat at those rates and that is the starting point to cool the battery and put out the fire.
Causes of battery fires are.
1. Stress from over heating. Driving the car to hard.
2. Damage from a wreck.
3. Direct short on the battery loads.
We do not know anybody that would treat a car like this do we.
The diesel trucks being modded and smoking like a steam engine are the type of people that would make mods to their EV for street racing

 

[12dbsinad]

Per GM if a GM EV catches fire from the battery the minimum Gallons Per Minute to COOL the BATTERY and to PUT the fire out is 500 GPM.
Most pumpers have 500 Gallon Tanks some 1000 Gallons. You are looking at a HYDRANT WATER SUPPLY and up to 10000 Gallons of water or more. This info came from a GM EV Fire Class taught to our department. The battery generates heat at those rates and that is the starting point to cool the battery and put out the fire.
Causes of battery fires are.
1. Stress from over heating. Driving the car to hard.
2. Damage from a wreck.
3. Direct short on the battery loads.
We do not know anybody that would treat a car like this do we.
The diesel trucks being modded and smoking like a steam engine are the type of people that would make mods to their EV for street racing

Yea, and that's just 1 vehicle, with several you just throw your hands up and let it burn out. Protect exposures is all you can do. Have you ever seen a EV transit bus go up in smoke? Makes any GM vehicle look small

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I am not convinced that ICE vehicles catch fire that often even based on the larger numbers of them.

 

[mmckenna]

I am not convinced that ICE vehicles catch fire that often even based on the larger numbers of them.

I don't know.
All I know is I've never personally seen an EV on fire. But I've seen several non-EV's on fire.
And I see a lot of EV's in my travels and have several family members, friends and co-workers that own them. All of them charge at home. If houses burning down from EV charging was an issue, I think the insurance companies would be all over it.
Seems like maybe the Tesla plant should burn to the ground several times a week if this was quite the big issue that some think it is.


The good news is that battery technology is advancing, so maybe the risks of Li Ion batteries won't be an ongoing thing.

Not saying that they are not a challenge when they do catch on fire. But that's not the fault of it being an electric vehicle. It's the lithium Ion batteries. That'll change as technology advances. Still waiting for my Back to the Future Mr. Fusion device….

As for lithium Ion batteries, like I said, I've got probably 1,200 at work just for radios, and a lot of those sit in chargers overnight, over weekends, vacations, etc. Never had one cause any issues. No one stores them in special boxes or bags. Almost 12 years of running those batteries and I've never hear of one having an issue.
Same for laptops. How many of us are surfing this page right now on a laptop with a Li Ion battery? Or have a cell phone sitting next to us? Or have power tools in the garage that use them?

Just seems like a lot of people looking for a new boogie man to be afraid of. Maybe I should get into the battery bag/ammo can business.

I'm not trained in hazmat or anything like that, but doing a quick search shows that Lithium Ion batteries can have ATEX certifications for use in hazardous locations. I'm assuming that there's a fair amount of study and testing that went into that, or it wouldn't be allowed.
An oil tanker would likely fall into that category, so I'm wondering if this battery-flambé was an appropriate battery for the environment, or what the whole story was behind it. One youtube video doesn't make the whole case.

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/content/dam/msi/docs/products/two-way-radio-accessories/batteries/brochures/motorola_solutions_battery_care_tips.pdf

Not seeing that Motorola recommends storing APX radios in a special bag….

 

[paulears]

Batteries rarely get mad ein the same plants as the radios - most have very common sources. Charging is always an issue - radios get dropped, they overheat.
This one luckily wasn't lithium - but it was very smelly. It's Kenwood, but that doesn't mean much.

 

[JvdK]

Go ask FDNY about this, they'll disagree with you. The more are out there, the more the risk, and the more companies push products with sub-par batteries/chargers because it's all about who can build it the cheapest.

It's like comparing EV fires to ICE vehicle fires. There are A LOT of fires with these things considering the very SMALL percentage of them in the US. Imagine if the roles are flipped. You already are seeing many precautions about charging them like not in parking garages. And when they start you just don't put them out with a small ABC extinguisher or even attempt. To think these people are charging them in their home garage while they and kids are asleep... NO THANK YOU.

I stopped discussing with people about this. Most of the time they don’t have their numbers straight and ignore the simple facts and numbers provided by fire brigades around the world. I just consider this as a modern case of Darwin’s law. If you wake up quick enough it’s only your house or garage that got burned..

 

[paulears]

My UK Fire Officer friend says that EVERYTHING is about risk. He gets calls about lithium batteries all the time, and today he has had one from a fire eater. As in a guy who squirts lighter fluid out of his mouth on fire, and puts flaming torches between his teeth. The advice was all about what he is doing it near. As in flammable curtains, or clothes - NOT about the craziness of the fire.

Lithium cells are virtually impossible to extinguish, but localised. So a fire is not necessarily a major problem. A ship's bridge is not typically filled with combustable material - so a simple solution is possible.

In a show I was running last year we had an animatronic teddy bear - one of the lithium cells caught fire because insulation failed on a DC cable and it shorted out. Real flames from a Teddy. The house crew used an extinguisher (Co2) which of course did nothing at all, I scooped it up by an ear and threw it out of the fire door. Ten minutes later, the fire went out. Scary when you cannot put them out. I would have thought a marine vessel would have a good safety system easily able to cope with a radio battery - and if not, why not?

 

[hanlonmi06]

Something not mentioned yet are the chargers themselves. How many folks with EV's are getting professional electrical installations versus DIY?

A news personality in the metro Detroit area did an article about the EV charger he had professional installed which caught fire. The fire was able to be put out quickly so damage was limited. Any argument can be made for or against anything, but there does seem to be anecdotal evidence that there is some type of "curve" to, at least, the vehicular world.

 

[KevinC]

Ok, a new acronym...CCB (Cheap Chinese Battery)...

Battery used in child’s ride-on vehicle sparks garage fire in Montgomery County

A toy battery used in a child’s ride-on vehicle was what officials with the Montgomery County Fire Marshal’s Office say was the source of a garage fire in Magnolia.

www.click2houston.com

“The homeowner had purchased off-brand replacement batteries from two different overseas manufacturers over the past couple of years and that may have been a contributing factor to the failure.”