Loaded A Nice Big DMR Database.....BUT

Status
Not open for further replies.

dcisive

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
176
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I am not hearing anything. On occasion it stops and the blue light lights around the left dial. For a brief 20 or so seconds I did have it stop on one broadcast, but since I've heard nothing. Am I missing something here? I do easily pick up the DMR Amatuer stuff set on another Favorite. Anything I need to know here?
 

dcisive

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
176
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I loaded a complete database from Justin's site. They ALL were listed as working on the "Custom 1" setting. I looked at the "Services" and the ONLY thing chosen or available is indeed Custom 1. I caught a few sounds but they were very brief, and the main one sounded like digitized duck talk or encrypted perhaps. The blue light goes solid when it finds one but there is NO sound at all. Scanning mode is all there is to my knowledge. This is really out of my league. I have NO idea what's going on here. On occasion it stops on a channel without the light lit but doesn't proceed to continue scanning. Very strange.
 

kma371

QRT
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
6,190
I loaded a complete database from Justin's site. They ALL were listed as working on the "Custom 1" setting. I looked at the "Services" and the ONLY thing chosen or available is indeed Custom 1. I caught a few sounds but they were very brief, and the main one sounded like digitized duck talk or encrypted perhaps. The blue light goes solid when it finds one but there is NO sound at all. Scanning mode is all there is to my knowledge. This is really out of my league. I have NO idea what's going on here. On occasion it stops on a channel without the light lit but doesn't proceed to continue scanning. Very strange.
Well your first issue might be "Justin's Site" as I don't know who/what that is, or how their database is set up. Since you don't list what scanner you are using, that makes it more difficult to help you as well, since most newer scanners already have a database built in and you shouldn't have to download from somewhere else.
 

troymail

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
9,977
Location
Supply (Lockwood Inlet area), NC
Just a couple of thougts:

Justin's site provides FCC license information and frequencies that "might" be DMR, etc. It's a good place for folks looking for activity to search but it is also likely to provide alot of frequencies that are not really using what the license says.

Also, given the nature of these DMR (and NXDN) business systems (generally smaller signal footprints/shorter range), even if the licencee is really using DMR, there's a good chance you could be out of range of those systems.

If I am not mistake, Justin's output generates data that when imported into your radio is "conventional" programming. As such, it is likely that some of the frequency could be for trunked systems. That (and for other reasons) may result in your scanner stopping and "hanging" on some frequencies - even showing color codes - but you may not hear anything (the active signal isn't voice).
 

dcisive

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
176
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Good point Troy. I guess I trusted Justin's stuff too much. I'll go back and delete it and use his listing as a guide to the company names in the RR site which would likely be a bit more reliable. I'll simple add those to a Favorites list and give them a try. There are quite a few considering so hoping they are active.
 

marksmith

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
4,128
Location
Anne Arundel County, MD
You are absolutely more likely to have success with populating favorites lists from Sentinel database than anywhere else.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others
 

troymail

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
9,977
Location
Supply (Lockwood Inlet area), NC
You are absolutely more likely to have success with populating favorites lists from Sentinel database than anywhere else.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others
True - if it has been submitted - but there's lots of DMR and NXDN out there that most folks didn't care about until recently - and more coming online regularly. Some areas have no DMR or NXDN listed on RRDB.
 

dcisive

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
176
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
It's kind of a drag as the Sentinel listing has only like 2 DMR companies where Justin's list has well over a dozen or more. I was really hoping to enjoy all that stuff but I suppose perhaps it's no good?
 

UPMan

Uniden Representative
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
13,288
Location
Arlington, TX
Sentinel will have confirmed data. Justin's is built based on the FCC database. So, you have to apply a lot more work to make things scannable. First, you should eliminate the low-power (input side) frequencies. Next, you need to determine whether they are operating in some flavor of DMR trunking and, if so, which flavor. Then, if trunked, you need to determining based on the flavor what the correct LCNs are.

I've done it with scanners. Also used SDR dongles and SDR#+DSD as tools for doing all that.
 

troymail

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
9,977
Location
Supply (Lockwood Inlet area), NC
It's kind of a drag as the Sentinel listing has only like 2 DMR companies where Justin's list has well over a dozen or more. I was really hoping to enjoy all that stuff but I suppose perhaps it's no good?
As mentioned, the data from Justin's webpage is based on hat the FCC licenses say. While some may be valid, there's alot that is, let's say, "coming soon" - or at least whomever made those license requests/modifications, etc. is hoping. In some cases, it could be a company who is "leaning forward" hoping to sell a company their radios and services. In other cases, a company may be in the process of during the acquisition and upgrades that will be there some time in the future.

Conversely, there are many systems in my area that are actually using DMR (not so much NXDN) that have either not submitted a modification to the license and/or it hasn't been processed by the FCC yet. As such, those licenses don't show up in Justin's output.

FWIW - none of this is Justin's fault - it's just not data that you can trust 100%. We've even encountered some FCC data that makes no sense in terms of the county/location it appears under (I have some in my area that says it's in a town/area within my state but not even close to the county I'm looking at.

So - to summarize - the output from Justin's tool is provided just as that - a tool to use to help you find possibilities. The other tool that you can use is the search feature of your scanner. When you search and find a frequency, you then just need to look it up and see who it might be. But, again, your options are the RRDB and fcc.gov/uls (or Justin's tool). But you still can't go just on those sources - you'll need to also listen to determine/verify who that actual user(s) are... which brings up another point to consider... This varies too from place to place but in my area, there are SO many different licensees, there is ALOT of frequency reuse (multiple companies/users using the same frequencies).

None of this is bad.... its just all part of the hobby.
 

dcisive

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
176
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Like I said, I'm really new to the trunking and DMR world of scanning. All I recalled was the old days when you programmed in a specific frequency and low and behold you GOT it there and then and it reliably provided the transmissions. This DMR thing seems like a lot of mysterious playing around to have a chance to hear anything. So after all the playing around and setting up this new Favorite program with all the DMR stuff in my area I'm hearing NOTHING. Got very little last night off of Justin's list. Heard maybe 3 short talks and then nothing. The worst part of that list was it was set up to light up the light (blue) when a transmission was received, but sadly there was no sound, just a station lock. What a drag. Not much for a $60 investment. The "normal" stuff is cooking along however. I do get great DMR Amateur radio in my area which is nice, but that's about all the DMR I'm regularly getting with reliability. The RR doesn't show ALL the tech stuff to program like the LCN's and such. I'd love to be able to read up online somewhere what all these terminologies mean and represent.
 

troymail

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
9,977
Location
Supply (Lockwood Inlet area), NC
Like I said, I'm really new to the trunking and DMR world of scanning. All I recalled was the old days when you programmed in a specific frequency and low and behold you GOT it there and then and it reliably provided the transmissions. This DMR thing seems like a lot of mysterious playing around to have a chance to hear anything. So after all the playing around and setting up this new Favorite program with all the DMR stuff in my area I'm hearing NOTHING. Got very little last night off of Justin's list. Heard maybe 3 short talks and then nothing. The worst part of that list was it was set up to light up the light (blue) when a transmission was received, but sadly there was no sound, just a station lock. What a drag. Not much for a $60 investment. The "normal" stuff is cooking along however. I do get great DMR Amateur radio in my area which is nice, but that's about all the DMR I'm regularly getting with reliability. The RR doesn't show ALL the tech stuff to program like the LCN's and such. I'd love to be able to read up online somewhere what all these terminologies mean and represent.
Yup - a learning experience - there's lots of hype about the new stuff out there but you really need to decide if it's worth it. I bought the ProVoice upgrade for my 436 but mostly out of curiosity -- I knew before hand that there is nothing in my immediate area that is ProVoice (and, it's going away anyway).

DMR is one of the new "hot" things - but you still need to know if it's worth paying extra for....

It's like this - if I lived in Florida, there isn't much reason to buy a snow thrower/blower.... you gotta ask yourself - do I really need it?
 

dcisive

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
176
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
You ain't gonna believe this

I had deleted the Justin site of his DMR's and loaded from the Sentinel site. So from the Sentinal I got just ONE good reception from a company. So just for the heck of it I reloaded the Justin grouping, which is HUGE. Well guess what. I'm NOW hearing tons of stuff from a good number of different sources. So obviously some of the stuff is legitimate. There are a number of them however that stop lighting up the blue light, but I get NO audio. Man that is frustrating. I was going to do a Analysis mode for the DMR and LCN thing which is in the menu. But when I put in the name of the "System" it just keeps rejecting it and won't work. How frustrating. I just thought maybe it would search and find some things I needed to know. But can't get it to do it's thing.
 

marksmith

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
4,128
Location
Anne Arundel County, MD
And once you have done all the above things that Up man afvised, or in the course of doing it, you may find that some of these are very low power, as a lot of these businesses are not operating on systems as large and powerful as your public safety organizations.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others
 

dave3825

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
2,524
Location
New York
So just for the heck of it I reloaded the Justin grouping, which is HUGE. Well guess what. I'm NOW hearing tons of stuff from a good number of different sources.
Justin's site will have stuff to listen to. Just dont expect to hear everything that's listed. The site pulls from the FCC database, and the FCC database contains many errors. Licenses that say dmr may be P25. Licenses that say P25, may be dmr. Etc... And dmr might not be in use yet for that license. If you know how to read an FCC license, that can be helpful because some stuff listed may have just recently been granted the authorization to use dmr, P25 or nxdn. I downloaded my area and found a good amount of dmr and nxdn that's not in the database here on this site. Found some P25 and it's in a favorite list so as soon as they start testing, I will hear it.

Its also nice to see what agencies are changing their comms. NYS Dec was granted P25. Nxdn was added to Long Island Railroad licenses. I find it's a lot easier to follow Justin's site to see new and or updated P25, Dmr and Nxdn licenses/ modifications than it is on the FCC site...

There are a number of them however that stop lighting up the blue light, but I get NO audio.
Usually no audio is a sign that its data being transmitted, not voice.

Man that is frustrating. I was going to do a Analysis mode for the DMR and LCN thing which is in the menu. But when I put in the name of the "System" it just keeps rejecting it and won't work.
When you say system, you do mean trunked, right? The lcn finder only works with trunked systems.
 

N0GTG

Scanner programmer since 1977
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 4, 2003
Messages
364
Location
Denver, Colorado
When you analyze the data from Justin's site (Digital Frequency Search), keep in mind:
1. This may be just a license with no actual radios yet.
2. The system may not be within your receiving range, either because you're too far from the repeater(s), or because they are using low-power handheld radios, which have a range of just a couple of miles in most cases.
3. The licensing may authorize many modes (including DMR) that are not in use, and may never be used.

I would expect businesses which assist companies in applying for licensing to request authorization for any mode the company MAY use, just in case they might use it in the future. It seems to me that would be good planning.

The company is not required to use any mode listed in their licensing, or to even ever begin using any radios

In other words, the results of your search give you possible listening opportunities. And isn't finding new things, and learning about radio, part of the enjoyment of scanning?
 

kma371

QRT
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
6,190
When it stops and you get no audio, it may be a control channel for a DMR trunked system. That is normal.
 

UPMan

Uniden Representative
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
13,288
Location
Arlington, TX
To use LCN finder, you'll need to identify all the frequencies for the system to be investigated and know the type of system it is. Then, you have to program only those frequencies into its own system of the appropriate type. You cannot run LCN finder on a bunch of frequencies in a conventional system.
 

jonwienke

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
9,251
Location
PA
Color Code can be useful. All of the freqs on a single system site will have the same color code. Although with only 16 to choose from, you could have 2 systems with the same color code.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top