Longmont 700 MHz

[BOWLERPBA]

Just FYI, I saw in The Community Report in the Times-Call this morning, that as we know Longmont will be converting to DTRS this year, and they have received funding to install repeaters/transmitters in and around Longmont; however it states in the article that it will be in the 700 range. I presume that I will need to program my PSR 500 for this, but how will the 700 interact with the 800 towers in the area such as the Mead site?

Mark

 

[GrayJeep]

Interact? They are on different frequencies.

No different than the Mead site (800 mhz) works with the Gunbarrel site (700 Mhz) so long as they are in the same system.

I suppose there might be another site installed somewhere in downtown Longmont like there is a site in Loveland.

Just FYI, I saw in The Community Report in the Times-Call this morning, that as we know Longmont will be converting to DTRS this year, and they have received funding to install repeaters/transmitters in and around Longmont; however it states in the article that it will be in the 700 range. I presume that I will need to program my PSR 500 for this, but how will the 700 interact with the 800 towers in the area such as the Mead site?

Mark

 

[BOWLERPBA]

I realize that they are on different freqs. What I am asking i swhat would probably work best, program it for 700 or say the Mead 800 site.

 

[DGroves]

I'm guessing they will convert their current tower that is west of town on Nelson Rd. That would help extend coverage further north and west in Boulder County should SO ever go that way. I'm sure they will still utilize Mead. I don't foresee them blocking Longmont's talkgroups from surrounding towers. Radio's that already use these towers out here will start getting a lot more busy signals I bet, unless they add some more voice frequencies to Mead.

 

[NorthCOVideo]

I don't know this for a fact, because I don't know the abilities of the 500, but if able I would program multiple frequencies. Depending on the radios they use the frequencies might switch over and interact just fine as needed, lets take for instance Fort Lupton, their tower is 700 but they are constantly being seen pop on 800 towers such as Mead, Greeley, and Buckhorn. Now I say this, because like said I don't know the abilities of the 500 and the RS equivalent, but now if I were doing it with my 396, I would program the towers that come online for Longmont for the main frequencies and Mead or Buckhorn for the default or backup.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the months to come.

 

[GrayJeep]

Why not both? (I guess it depends on your definition of "work best" is.)
My radios accomodate the "both" solution. Won't yours?

I realize that they are on different freqs. What I am asking i swhat would probably work best, program it for 700 or say the Mead 800 site.

 

[jimmnn]

Today's Longmont Times-Call makes it sound like they are going to delay hiring additional police officers in favor of moving forward on DTRS.

"Continue working to get grants to help upgrade the city’s radio system. The city needs $995,000 to switch to the statewide digital trunked radio system. That money would come from the estimated $2.75 million balance in the public safety fund."

The Longmont Times-Call


Jim<

 

[scanlist]

Their VHF conventional system is sounding pretty bad these days especially portable talk-in coverage.

Whatever became of the narrowband VHF LTR system they setup a few years back. I never did catch anything on it other than the interval key-ups for repeater LCN ID.

 

[BravoHotel]

I'm guessing they will convert their current tower that is west of town on Nelson Rd. That would help extend coverage further north and west in Boulder County should SO ever go that way. I'm sure they will still utilize Mead. I don't foresee them blocking Longmont's talkgroups from surrounding towers. Radio's that already use these towers out here will start getting a lot more busy signals I bet, unless they add some more voice frequencies to Mead.

There is no tower or City of Longmont site on Nelson Road west of Longmont. They have some receivers at the airport for the VHF system.

A comment was made about how the VHF system sounds bad. Funny, if one does not take care of a system because one only sees the big digital promise coming, sure it will not work as well. It just makes it look like one "needs" a new system. Longmont has a good VHF analog system. They just want something new because a consultant said so. The current system could have been improved with the addition of some receivers out east for a lot less money. But I guess it is just that interoperability thing.... oops... interoperability with the county will be out the door now.

The new site will be 700 because there are no available coordinated channels left in 800 in the area. Then the 700 stuff will need to be rebanded. What a waste of taxpayer money.

 

[scanlist]

Already been there.

The "add some voters" and ensuing debate occurred here several years ago when the city was looking at solutions.

The city also has a 3 or 4 channel VHF narrowband LTR system that appears to be idle and I'm not sure if it ever was used for anything to begin with.

I seriously doubt the radio techs would intentionally let the current VHF system fall apart. The land grab out East is the reason why portable talk in coverage is marginal to poor particularly on the East side. The current system was never intended to cover that area.

In some ways it appears the city council thought it would be a simple transition. At the time the Mead site had a very poor coverage footprint prior to re-banding and the Gunbarrel 700 site only yields coverage to the South South West of the city.

It's speculated that Gunbarrel is the first site for a multi-site simulcast system similar to the Adams County 700 simulcast site system. If the new sites in the city are in fact simulcast digital scanners may have a difficult time with it.

Now Longmont will have interop with Weld going DTR. Sorta like Erie being in Weld but dispatched by Boulder County. The interop term is waved all the time same with Columbine High School as selling points. Just be glad Longmont is not going Pro-Voice or OpenSky.

Since ADP encryption is a low cost option one hopes that Longmont doesn't go full crypto on the PD side.

 

[BravoHotel]

I recall the discussion of adding "voters" (which is actually adding receivers unless your voter/comparator is full and it needs to be expanded.) By falling apart, I should clarify - the city should have added the receivers years ago to prevent a "degraded" system. Not a fault of a radio tech but perhaps a poor decision by city leaders.

There are no current plans to simulcast Gunbarrel.

Longmont's conversion to DTRS will force DTRS into the agencies that currently have interoperability with them on VHF. With grant money drying up, this will cost the taxpayers in Boulder County. Have no doubt, DTRS will come to the flats of Boulder County in a big way, embraced with open arms or not. I just hope the APX/Harris/Thales or SDR radios become affordable because most guys and gals that I work with here don't want to sport two boxes on thier duty belts, in thier bunker gear or rescue packs. Audio bridging two systems is worthless - just listen to Network First on the VHF side sometime. Tyco engineers can't seem to fix it.

At the end of all of this - more money will have been spent for roughly the same thing. Longmont is just going to trade one set of problems for another. No radio system is perfect and unfortunately that is what most people expect.

 

[scanlist]

Longmont forcing the county to move? Unlikely. The Boulder County Sheriff himself is dead set against it. $4000 vs $400 for field radios was his argument the last time it was brought up in the Boulder Daily Camera. Also the City of Boulder is adding more to their current VHF system.

DTR, even with the Betasso site, still fails in the canyons and CSP 6C troopers have to use GREEN to relay comm to CSP dispatch in certain areas in the Western part of the county. Unless CCNC gets serious about coverage in the county and/or D.C. throws money from the sky no ones going to bite.

Boulder county has been a thorn in the side for those wanting a DTR uptopia.

 

[BravoHotel]

This will not force the county into dispatching off DTRS, but integrate more DTRS radios into the cars and on the belts of those who provide MA to Longmont.

VHF P25 channels into the DTRS would be an OK solution but CCNC does not like that because it is as easily shared if everyone was on 700/800.

 

[scanlist]

Wyolink has successfully incorporated Cheyenne Fire's 800 P25 system into their P25 VHF network with no issues raised so far. Boulder County did P25 VHF testing a couple of years back with a temporary repeater on Thorodin so a P25 VHF option could be viable down the road.

CCNC does not like anything they do not have total control over. PPRC(?) (COS/EPSO system) has been one of the first entities to not roll over to them.

I do understand where you are coming from as far as having to carry multiple radios. Career politicians don't think about these matters since they're baffled by brilliance and dazzled with the consultant's/sales droid BS.

 

[snoopyII]

Their VHF sounds pretty good to me. If I was a resident of Longmont I would be heavily disappointed in the citys decision to convert. Interoperability with everybody else is the "in" thing to do, but why isolate themselves from the county their in? Maybe its the "coolness" factor, so they can say " were keeping up with the times,... we have the cool new 700 Mhz stuff too....." Yeah, its really cool for Longmont PD to be able to talk to Douglas SO. I'm sure that will come in handy someday. It seems to me, unless the county deceides to move, the city is wasting their money...in a big way, with tax revenues falling, which part of this sounds like a good idea? I smell a tax increase lurking somewhere in the weeds here. CSP Still has VHF in the Boulder county cars, Mtn View Fire has both too. Unless a 747 crashes onto I-25 and SH 119 (which would be Mtn Views Fire command anyway) who do the intend on interoperating with? When was the last time Longmont PD or FD went out of the city ( and /or the county for that matter) and interoperability was a problem? Whatever consulting firm talked the city into thinking this was a good idea is laughing their way to the bank, and the Longmont residents are going to to be stiffed with the bill in the long run.

 

[DGroves]

As soon as we annex everything right up to concepts direct then Longmont will have a vested interest in communicating to city's that border theirs. Maybe the people in Longmont wish they weren't in Boulder anymore with all the kooks running around. Barak Osama high school? Give me a break. It's a good thing big government has so many rules and regulations that protect stupid people from themselves or that might have just happened. A side note to the whole border city thing. Longmont was trying annex all this land along 119 to about 5.5 and turn it in to a nature area so that there were clearly defined boundaries with Firestone.

 

[mikeATtleccdotnet]

There are no current plans to simulcast Gunbarrel.

That's strange as Gunbarrel has all the equipment to go Simulcast...

-Mike

 

[BravoHotel]

There are no current plans to simulcast Gunbarrel.

That's strange as Gunbarrel has all the equipment to go Simulcast...

-Mike

And the big radio manufacturers (not singling out any company) like to sell stuff, especially with the "you might need this someday" line. An easy trap to fall into when grant money is paying the bill.

 

[scanlist]

It's the evil radio company

Isn't that what radio equipment manufacturers do as in sell their equipment. If they didn't they wouldn't be radio equipment manufacturers anymore.

Politicians that don't do their homework or educate themselves.. We really don't wanna go there.

CCNC setup Gunbarrel for multiple proposes including long term future communications needs not because of some sales droid pushing for a sale.

 

[BOWLERPBA]

Longmont 700

If I remember correctly, the consultant was Federal Engineering, Inc. out of Fairfax, Virginia. that Longmont selected to do the dog and pony show.
Mark