Looking for a lot of advice: CB and GMRS install in a Wrangler

[CaptDan]

To be clear- YES you can use any of the radios you mentioned with a Midland without any problems at all. In addition, you can use some cheap "bubble pack" walkie talkies with any of the radios mentioned. (many of us use them when spotting a technical situation between spotter and driver)

Second, most likely you will be operating in the simplex mode if you are using a PL tone or not. Not to insult your radio intelligence - but you might be new and the quick & dirty on "PL" codes is that it it like a lock & key for your radio speaker. Your radio will receive anything transmitted on the frequency (within range of course) however if you have a "PL" code set, the speaker will remain quiet unless the transmission contains the proper "PL" code to open the speaker and allow you to hear the transmission.

If you do not have a "PL" code set in your radio, but another person does, you will hear their transmissions because your speaker is "unlocked" however if/when you try to respond to them, and they do have a "PL" code set they will not hear you because their speaker needs a key - "PL" code to unlock the speaker.

The midland has 142 possible "PL" codes. You will need to know if your buddies are using one and it can be a different "PL" code for each frequency. The standard or universal "PL" code is 141.3 or what Midland calls CTCSS code 22.

The only issue and really should not be an issue could be if your wheeling buddies want to frequently change their "PL" code. The Midland can do that from the keypad, while I do not think the radios you mentioned can do that, they need the a computer and programing software to program a "PL" code.

 

[jeepsandradios]

The issue with the midland is modulation. It is narrow band and not wide as many GMRS folks are running. I have programmed my APX with both wide band and narrow band frequencies. If you plan to talk to alot of folks with the midland I would program narrow band. Its still not the same modulation as the midland but it works much better than a wide band radio.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

Just an update: I order a ton of stuff from antenna farm. Seems like shipping is delayed for a bit.

Also picked up two vertex radios programmed for GMRS narrowband, from one of the members here. I think they can fit in my center console.

Once I get all the parts, I'll start trying to get this all put together

 

[K7MFC]

Once I get all the parts, I'll start trying to get this all put together

Post some pics in the shack photos forum when it's done!

 

[mmckenna]

Just an update: I order a ton of stuff from antenna farm. Seems like shipping is delayed for a bit.

It's a small shop, maybe one guy. Might be running a bit behind, but they usually ship them quickly.
I use them periodically for small orders at work where my larger suppliers minimum orders get in the way. Never had an issue.

Also picked up two vertex radios programmed for GMRS narrowband, from one of the members here. I think they can fit in my center console.

Once I get all the parts, I'll start trying to get this all put together

I think you are going to have a really nice set up when it's all done. Looking forward to seeing it.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

It's a small shop, maybe one guy. Might be running a bit behind, but they usually ship them quickly.
I use them periodically for small orders at work where my larger suppliers minimum orders get in the way. Never had an issue.

I think you are going to have a really nice set up when it's all done. Looking forward to seeing it.

I called 7 days ago and changed out the connectors, since I ordered the wrong one's. I gave him a call today to verify, he confirmed the change was on the order. Apparently my order was held up because one of the antennas is on back order. He's going to push everything else to me and I'll get the antenna when it's in stock. Not sure if it's the CB antenna or the GMRS.

 

[bill4long]

Get a used Kenwood TK-8102 or similar. Forget about the Midland junk. Period. Personally, I have no qualms about using any Part 90 certified radio on GMRS as long as it's otherwise compliant. Call me a scoff-law. This sort of thing is widespread on GMRS and the FCC doesn't seem to give a rat's rear end. They're not out patrolling for offenses in this matter. We all know they should get off their lazy rear-ends and allow Part 90 gear on GMRS. Anyway, use your own judgement.

 

[mmckenna]

Get a used Kenwood TK-8102 or similar. Forget about the Midland junk. Period. Personally, I have no qualms about using any Part 90 certified radio on GMRS as long as it's otherwise compliant. Call me a scoff-law. This sort of thing is widespread on GMRS and the FCC doesn't seem to give a rat's rear end. They're not out patrolling for offenses in this matter. We all know they should get off their lazy rear-ends and allow Part 90 gear on GMRS. Anyway, use your own judgement.

I would concur. I think the part 95 requirement on the radios is a way for the FCC to -try- to keep people from doing stupid things (running 100watt UHF mobiles…). For people new to GMRS, I always attempt to steer them the right way.
But a proper Part 90 radio set up correctly on GMRS frequencies certainly opens up a lot of options. Personally the TK-8180 gives you some more options that 8102 doesn't, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

I picked up a Vertex VX3200 from a radioreference forum member here and he programmed it for GMRS for me. I got the radio installed in my glove box (didn't have room in the console).

I'm _still_ waiting on my antenna and springs from Antenna Farm. I got a lot of other gear from them already though. I've installed the brackets and the NMO mounts. One of my off-roading friends is a former "signal guy" from the Army, he's going to help me strip and crimp these mounts and tune once I get the antenna in.

Installation: I ended up not at close to the front as I wanted to be. I'm about half-way down the hood due to the way the brackets fit and the hood is designed. I have the CB antenna installed on the passenger side, and the mount with rain cap for the GMRS antenna on the drivers. I used rivets to hold the brackets in place. I'm currently only using 2/3 of the holes, I ordered some short ground straps that I'll put on the third hole. The body ground points for the engine bay are right behind those brackets. As soon as those are in, I'll put another rivet on to hold the ground and get it secured even more to the fender.

Coax is routed through a port in the firewall on the drivers side, will end up behind the glove box on the passenger side.

The vx3200 is in the glove box. I had to use a hole saw to cut a hole for the wires to pass through. Also noticed the exterior lip just a few MM to allow the mic to pass through the face without pinching.

 

[mmckenna]

Looks good.

As for the antenna mounts, the rivets are a solution I've never seen used before. No reason they won't work just fine.
I would point out that you do what the ground for the antenna base right at the antenna. Running a long strap to a ground point might create some issues. I'd not rely on pop-rivets as a good grounding means. Usually sheet metal screws with a star washer and/or bare metal is used. Instead of running a long ground strap, I'd encourage using a sheet metal screw with a star washer between the bracket and body for your RF ground.

Looks like it's turning out to be a good install. I'm sure the other Jeepers will be envious when they see what a good job you did on this. So much better than a rushed install with cigarette lighter plugs, and other shortcuts.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

Looks good.

As for the antenna mounts, the rivets are a solution I've never seen used before. No reason they won't work just fine.
I would point out that you do what the ground for the antenna base right at the antenna. Running a long strap to a ground point might create some issues. I'd not rely on pop-rivets as a good grounding means. Usually sheet metal screws with a star washer and/or bare metal is used. Instead of running a long ground strap, I'd encourage using a sheet metal screw with a star washer between the bracket and body for your RF ground.

Looks like it's turning out to be a good install. I'm sure the other Jeepers will be envious when they see what a good job you did on this. So much better than a rushed install with cigarette lighter plugs, and other shortcuts.

For the ground, how does that work with an nmo mount? Currently, the nmo is under / going up into the bracket, with a lock collar on top pinching it in place. Then there is a rubber weather seal, and the antenna screws on top of that.

Where do I put the ground wire in that sandwich, that keeps the weather resistance?

Can I put the ground up near the antenna part (between the base and the antenna or spring (once it comes))?

I'm pretty sure I can put a bolt/washer in that third position if that's better than a rivet for ground. (if the above doesn't work out)

Also, the grounding points for the engine bay are immediately behind the mounts. My straps are going to be about 4" long.

 

[mmckenna]

For the ground, how does that work with an nmo mount? Currently, the nmo is under / going up into the bracket, with a lock collar on top pinching it in place. Then there is a rubber weather seal, and the antenna screws on top of that.

The grounding is done through the underside of the bracket. The center part of the NMO mount where the coax connects has some teeth in it. In a normal through the roof type install that would be on the inside of the vehicle roof and would ground just fine into the vehicle body.

Where do I put the ground wire in that sandwich, that keeps the weather resistance?

I'd use the third screw hole in your hood bracket.

I'm pretty sure I can put a bolt/washer in that third position if that's better than a rivet for ground. (if the above doesn't work out)

Also, the grounding points for the engine bay are immediately behind the mounts. My straps are going to be about 4" long.

My concern is that the rivet isn't going to make a good ground contact. The compression nature of the rivet doesn't do much to make a good electrical connection when there is a layer of paint involved. Even the backside of the sheet metal body probably has some coating on it.

The grounding points would probably work, but a 4" long ground strap can act like an antenna, especially inside a RF noisy engine compartment.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

The grounding is done through the underside of the bracket. The center part of the NMO mount where the coax connects has some teeth in it. In a normal through the roof type install that would be on the inside of the vehicle roof and would ground just fine into the vehicle body.



I'd use the third screw hole in your hood bracket.



My concern is that the rivet isn't going to make a good ground contact. The compression nature of the rivet doesn't do much to make a good electrical connection when there is a layer of paint involved. Even the backside of the sheet metal body probably has some coating on it.

The grounding points would probably work, but a 4" long ground strap can act like an antenna, especially inside a RF noisy engine compartment.

Do you think it's better to just use a bolt in that third hole, and skip the ground strap completely then?

The straps I ordered are bare metal. Is there some kind of coating / sheathing I could put over them (heatshrink) that could help eliminate ingress? (Amazon.com: Shrink-N-Shield EMI Shielding Heat Shrink Tubing, 3:1 Shrink Ratio, 0.375” Diameter, 12” Long: Car Electronics) Like this?

 

[mmckenna]

Do you think it's better to just use a bolt in that third hole, and skip the ground strap completely then?

Yes. You want your grounds as short as possible. Especially when it comes to your antenna grounds.

The straps I ordered are bare metal. Is there some kind of coating / sheathing I could put over them (heatshrink) that could help eliminate ingress? (Amazon.com: Shrink-N-Shield EMI Shielding Heat Shrink Tubing, 3:1 Shrink Ratio, 0.375” Diameter, 12” Long: Car Electronics) Like this?

No, I wouldn't bother with that. Just use a stainless steel sheet metal screw with a stainless star washer between the mounting bracket and the vehicle body. You want good metal to metal contact.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

Yes. You want your grounds as short as possible. Especially when it comes to your antenna grounds.



No, I wouldn't bother with that. Just use a stainless steel sheet metal screw with a stainless star washer between the mounting bracket and the vehicle body. You want good metal to metal contact.

Easy enough! I can hit Lowes this afternoon and pick those up.

 

[mmckenna]

Easy enough! I can hit Lowes this afternoon and pick those up.

If you can easily access the underside of the body, I'd use a stainless steel locking nut, bolt and star washers. Sheet metal screws are fine, but through bolting is better.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

If you can easily access the underside of the body, I'd use a stainless steel locking nut, bolt and star washers. Sheet metal screws are fine, but through bolting is better.

It may be super tricky, without taking the entire fender panel off. But, I'll give that a look this evening and see what I have to work with. I'm not sure if I can access that cavity from behind the fender liner or not.

 

[mmckenna]

It may be super tricky, without taking the entire fender panel off. But, I'll give that a look this evening and see what I have to work with. I'm not sure if I can access that cavity from behind the fender liner or not.

No big deal, then. Sheet metal screw will work fine.

Idea is that you want as short a path as possible between the antenna base and the body steel. Paint can be a pretty good insulator, so you really want to make sure you have a good connection.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

No big deal, then. Sheet metal screw will work fine.

Idea is that you want as short a path as possible between the antenna base and the body steel. Paint can be a pretty good insulator, so you really want to make sure you have a good connection.

Haha, my ground straps were just delivered.

 

[JK_Willys_18]

No big deal, then. Sheet metal screw will work fine.

Idea is that you want as short a path as possible between the antenna base and the body steel. Paint can be a pretty good insulator, so you really want to make sure you have a good connection.

Just got my sheet metal screws in, and those inner-tooth washers between the bracket and the screw head.