Looking for walkie-talkies for a school

[mmckenna]

Such testing, or post-market surveillance, is the responsibility of the TCB, i.e. the people in Germany.

https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=dQfN6tcMcj%2FrEmjHGZ%2B3dw%3D%3D&desc=610077%20D01%20TCB%20Post%20Market%20Surveillance%20v06r02&tracking_number=20540

The way the system is set up isn't completely the FCC's choice, but it's due to globalization and WTO rules. You can see ISO/IEC 17065 is mentioned, that's the fundamentals of the system.

That good, thanks for the link, hadn't read that document.

Seems to have some room for slop, though. I'd like to see the FCC randomly spot check radios as they arrive in the country to keep everyone on the level. I see that the FCC does have a lab, but I have to wonder if they are as short staffed as the rest of the organization.

 

[hp8920]

Seems to have some room for slop, though. I'd like to see the FCC randomly spot check radios as they arrive in the country to keep everyone on the level.

What's supposed to happen is the TCB is supposed to re-test a selection of lab results, to keep the accredited labs honest. Then FCC can re-test to keep the TCBs honest. You can see it gets severely funneled down by the time it gets to the FCC.

Prior to the 2000's when the TCB system was implemented, FCC's lab did the accredited lab re-tests themselves, but as you say, they all got cut.

 

[buddrousa]

All I will say is a system setup correctly will display an unsecured door does not matter if not locked or propped open. I did not install the system nor have I seen the system so I will not make a comment on it. As sad as it is if you want a building secure look at how jails or high security prisons are built.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The ZP5BF-888S was certified by EMCCons DR RASEK GmbH & Co. KG, Stoernhofer Berg 15, Unterleinleiter, 91364, Germany. The D878 (T4KD878UV) was certified by PHOENIX TESTLAB GmbH, Königswinkel 10, 32825 Blomberg, Germany.

The shadiness is in Germany, not China.

I wonder if the Chinese own the lab in Germany?

 

[SA_tx_88116]

Greetings, I am looking for budget UHF walkie-talkies for my school. We have our FCC license for eight frequencies, and I have been programming these into Baofeng 888s radios for a few years now, but have started to experience significant quality issues, affecting our ability to rely on these.

Any suggestions for alternative budget transceivers? I have about 60 of the 888s, but only 10-15 are in use at any given time.

Alternatively, is there any methodology to improving the reliability of our existing 888s?

Thanks in advance!

If you want quality radios at a good price I would go with the Motorola

APX 900 SINGLE-BAND P25 PORTABLE RADIO​

I remember my intermediate school used these radios and believe me my school was ghetto and they had hardly no funding and if your school can’t afford them y’all need to reach out for help and if you want to limit the amount of money you spend I would recommend only buying radios for higher ups such as principals and vice principals, coaches, counselors, managers, and maintenance. Link to the radios:APX 900 Single-Band P25 Two-Way Radio - Motorola Solutions

 

[hp8920]

The step from a Baofeng 888s to a Motorola P25 radio is pretty much going from the cheapest to the most expensive radio possible. This is especially true if you're one school and can't ride off large contracts.

The only real reason to buy a P25 radio here is because somebody else has a P25 system and you need to use it. Direct? P25 works ok, not the most efficient. Somebody has a fancy county-wide trunked system? Fine. The steps in between, i.e. single channel repeater, single-site or small multi-site trunked system, are seriously cost prohibitive.

 

[SA_tx_88116]

The step from a Baofeng 888s to a Motorola P25 radio is pretty much going from the cheapest to the most expensive radio possible. This is especially true if you're one school and can't ride off large contracts.

The only real reason to buy a P25 radio here is because somebody else has a P25 system and you need to use it. Direct? P25 works ok, not the most efficient. Somebody has a fancy county-wide trunked system? Fine. The steps in between, i.e. single channel repeater, single-site or small multi-site trunked system, are seriously cost prohibitive.

I agree but most basic two way radios can easily be interfered with.

 

[hp8920]

I agree but most basic two way radios can easily be interfered with.

P25 has nothing special in that regard. P25, DMR, FM, NXDN wide all sit in a 12.5 kHz channel. Jam that, you're done. Remember all the problems with Nextel's unintentional jamming?

If you want jam-resistant, get a license-free Motorola DLR/DTR radio. You get spread spectrum. Or do a PTT over cellular or Wi-Fi solution.

 

[mmckenna]

I agree but most basic two way radios can easily be interfered with.

The OP says they already have a license. That license may not allow P25. Changing the license is some work. Not impossible, but not easy, either.

And an APX radio in this sort of application is total overkill and way more money than needs to be spent to get the communications they need. It would be a complete and total waste of taxpayer dollars to take a small school from $14 Chinese radios to APX line radios.

Kind of the nuclear hand grenade solution to radio system design.
It takes a lot of knowledge and understanding to design a radio system, much more than knowing name brand/model numbers.

 

[WIlburtoV05]

Thanks for the wealth of information! I am hearing that digital is the way to go. If I were to start slowly with replacing some of the radios, are there any digital ones that could interoperate with the existing fleet of baofeng 888s on our assigned frequencies?

I’ve reached out to radio vendors, but seem to get conflicting info.

 

[hp8920]

Thanks for the wealth of information! I am hearing that digital is the way to go. If I were to start slowly with replacing some of the radios, are there any digital ones that could interoperate with the existing fleet of baofeng 888s on our assigned frequencies?

I’ve reached out to radio vendors, but seem to get conflicting info.

Any radio capable of analog operation on those frequencies will work with the Baofeng 888s. I can't think of any serious digital-only radio off the top of my head.

A dealer might not guarantee interoperability, due to the extreme low cost of the Baofengs, and that's perfectly understandable.

 

[buddrousa]

I know for a fact the kenwood nx5000 series will do mixed mode as I am doing that for our fd going analog to dmr so should the nx3000 series and I think the nx1000 series will as well.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks for the wealth of information! I am hearing that digital is the way to go. If I were to start slowly with replacing some of the radios, are there any digital ones that could interoperate with the existing fleet of baofeng 888s on our assigned frequencies?

I’ve reached out to radio vendors, but seem to get conflicting info.

Since the Baofeng is analog only, any analog radio that is programmed correctly will work with it.

However, from personal experience, when you start mixing quality LMR radios with Baofengs, the Baofengs start to show their true color. It'll work, but expect complaints.

You can certainly buy new radios that will do analog and digital, there are many options out there that will work. You can run them in analog until all the Baofengs die off, then switch to digital.
Or, just stick with analog. Digital is nice, but for what you are doing, analog will do everything you need.

—ALSO--
Your existing FCC license will allow only certain emissions. Likely it may be analog only. If you decide to run digital, you -should- get your license updated BEFORE buying any new digital radios. Work with your radio vendor to do this, as it's not a simple task and may require the services of a frequency coordinator.

I know for a fact the kenwood nx5000 series will do mixed mode as I am doing that for our fd going analog to dmr so should the nx3000 series and I think the nx1000 series will as well.

Correct, all those will do analog + at least one form of digital.

For this application, the NX-1000 line would be ideal. NX-1300NUK is the UHF analog/NXDN digital version. NX-1300DUK is the UHF analog/DMR version. In reality, it's the same radio with a different feature load. I'm running a few NX-1300NUK's at one of my remote sites, and just ordered a crap load of NX-1300DUK's for another.

 

[WIlburtoV05]

I can pick up some Motorola CP100D in UHF, with an option to change (with software?) to digital later for a bit over $200 each. Any objections to this route?

 

[mmckenna]

I can pick up some Motorola CP100D in UHF, with an option to change (with software?) to digital later for a bit over $200 each. Any objections to this route?

I haven't dealt with that specific radio, but it should work fine. Those will do analog and MotoTrbo (Motorola's DMR).

Just be sure to look closely at -all- the costs involved, especially programming software/cables. If these are used radios, consider that all batteries and antennas will need to be replaced as they are usually 'expendable' items that take a lot of abuse.

Don't get too hung up on brand names. While Motorola usually makes a fine product, there are other manufacturers out there that make an equally good product.

 

[WIlburtoV05]

I haven't dealt with that specific radio, but it should work fine. Those will do analog and MotoTrbo (Motorola's DMR).

Just be sure to look closely at -all- the costs involved, especially programming software/cables. If these are used radios, consider that all batteries and antennas will need to be replaced as they are usually 'expendable' items that take a lot of abuse.

Don't get too hung up on brand names. While Motorola usually makes a fine product, there are other manufacturers out there that make an equally good product.

Thanks! From what I see, I’ll need to get the Motorola software, since it doesn’t look like CHIRP supports it. Does the Motorola software have any hidden cost? Their site isn’t clear.

 

[KevinC]

If you want quality radios at a good price I would go with the Motorola

APX 900 SINGLE-BAND P25 PORTABLE RADIO​

I remember my intermediate school used these radios and believe me my school was ghetto and they had hardly no funding and if your school can’t afford them y’all need to reach out for help and if you want to limit the amount of money you spend I would recommend only buying radios for higher ups such as principals and vice principals, coaches, counselors, managers, and maintenance. Link to the radios:APX 900 Single-Band P25 Two-Way Radio - Motorola Solutions

Nothing personal, but let’s let the professionals in this thread help the OP. I know the APX900 may be a cool radio, but as was pointed out it’s probably not the best solution for this situation.

 

[XVCham]

Honestly, If the school ain't big. I would just get DTR series.
They are license free, FHSS, Digital, Somewhat secure and I recently have gotten mine to patch with my IPSC DMR system (using homemade wires + connecting it to an CP200D) "for fun".

Sometimes you can get pretty lucky and get the newer 700 series for pretty cheap. I picked up 3 of them for $70 Canadian.

As for the question regarding CP100D, they are cool radios I have one with limited keypad and IPSC feature enabled. I mainly use CAP+ (also patched to IPSC + P25 trs used by the province) so I've been using it as a backup radio for when my 7550 fails/runs out of battery.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks! From what I see, I’ll need to get the Motorola software, since it doesn’t look like CHIRP supports it. Does the Motorola software have any hidden cost? Their site isn’t clear.

You don't want to mess around with Chirp on a professional radio like this. The risk of screwing something up is a bit high.

Not sure what the current price (if any) for CP-200 CPS runs, but you'll need a programming cable, also. If you are buying these radios new, have the vendor include software/cable in the price. You want the correct version software for the firmware version in the radios. Motorola software usually includes updates for a certain amount of time. If you ever replace radios, they may come with an updated firmware, and you'd need updated software to program it. Another good reason to avoid Chirp is you don't have any control over version support. Not a good place to be in a commercial application.

You also don't want boogered together radio systems. I might save some money in the short term, but long term reliability and support become an issue. Linking a license by rule radio service (like 900MHz DTR series) into a licensed UHF system comes with challenges. You absolutely, 100% would want some sort of controller to keep a hosed up radio from locking things up. You'd also have to deal with powering such a setup. Reliability and maintainability becomes a concern. If you move on to another employer, your name will get used in vain if you leave them with a cobbled together radio system that no one can support.

If this is for a school, take the time to do it right. A $200 CP-200d is a suitable radio for this application. Deal with a reputable Motorola dealer that will support you long term. Avoid buying things like this from random internet sellers because you may run into support issues. Even though you are going to program these yourself, their may come a time when the school might need to have someone else do it.

I've been doing this stuff for a long time. You might be able to save a few bucks here and there, which will make them happy in the short term. Long term, which is where you should be looking, is that it's going to turn into a support challenge for you, or whoever replaces you. One off, custom systems that rely on multiple radio models, digital/analog modes, and things that are only understood/supported by one person, become a big liability. Your school will not want to invest a bunch of money in new radios, only to find out in a few years that they have to invest more money to fix it. I've never run across a situation where cutting corners was cheaper in the long run, compared to doing it right the first time.

 

[hp8920]

Honestly, If the school ain't big. I would just get DTR series.

The FHSS on the DTR gives you a bit better range than you would expect with a comparable, traditional LMR radio, and you don't have to deal with licensing.

The downsides would be no compatibility with the existing Baofengs. You would also need a complete replacement if you ever needed an upgrade to a repeater or trunked system. However, you should expect to replace the units in 5-7 years anyway due to normal wear-and-tear.

Also, strongly consider a base radio, e.g for the front office. (Not available on the DTR) It can be set up to alarm to emergency calls from handhelds. It will be more reliable in that it's wall-powered, so no battery issues, is fixed, so it won't walk off to lunch with somebody and has less abuse from daily handling, and will have a bit higher power.

The best thing would be to work with a local dealer and borrow a demo pair of the DTR, CP-200d, a base radio, and whatever else they suggest, test around your campus for range, and have users evaluate them, especially considering audio quality, ease of use, and battery life.