Looking to make DX contacts with low-power gear

[SpaceForceCmdr]

I'm am very new to this hobby, and have just been listening up to this point. Right now, I find myself most interesting in contacting countries outside the US. However, I don't think my current house is going to be good for an elaborate setup, and I'm antenna challenged (small yard, powerlines all over, etc). Another member made the suggestion below, and I was hoping to get some more advice. I'm guessing repeaters will come into play, among other things.

Basically, I'm looking to start out simple, and would like a very basic setup that's capable of contacting other countries. In short, DX'ing with a small radio. Not sure this is even possible, otherwise why would people build huge and antennas and whatnot, but thought I'd ask

Very well @SpaceForceCmdr,

Let me start by saying that going digital with a VHF/UHF HT and a Technician license, you can immediately start making long distance foreign (DX) contacts/conversations (QSOs) for less than $1,000 investment. To essentially do the same with HF, you ideally need a General class license and your overall investment for everything you need including using a 40 Meter through 10 Meter vertical antenna system in your backyard would probably be over the $1,000 mark.

One thing that I am thinking is perhaps you should start a new thread with both your snippet and my initial response above quoted in the new topic. I am already guilty of really straying far away from the thread’s title. We should not continue on this tangent. If you agree, please start a new thread like I suggested and we can go from there. What say?

73, Dave K4EET

 

[a417]

do you have your amateur license?

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Hopefully, by the end of the month

 

[prcguy]

The higher HF bands like 20 through 10m can make lots of DX contacts with low power. There are known QRP frequencies on most bands and that's a good place to try. When 10m is open you can talk all over the place with 5 watts and a modest antenna. I once heard 10m open up on my base radio so I grabbed a 20w military manpack and ran to my backyard deck and gave a call to the guy I heard on the base. He came back to me but my signal report was pretty lousy, then I noticed I forgot to put the whip antenna on the manpack and was transmitting on a spring about 4 or 5" long. That was So Cal to somewhere like Minnesota.

 

[K4EET]

Hi @SpaceForceCmdr, what I'm thinking, once you get your Technician class license, is to consider entry into DMR radio with a hotspot. With a DMR radio, you will have access to the analog FM simplex (direct HT to HT) frequencies as well as the analog VHF and UHF repeaters. That covers local activity. Then for easy-peasy armchair copy long distance foreign (DX) conversations (QSOs), you add a Digital Hotspot that is connected to the Internet via your home computer network. Your hotspot allows your DMR HT to access a worldwide network, say the BrandMeister Worldwide talkgroup, and once you are connected, you will be able to talk to other hams around the globe.

Some naysayers will say that is not Amateur Radio because the Internet is involved. To them I ask, can you do what I just described without an Amateur Radio license? Of course, the answer is no.

There are a lot of ways to put together a system to do what I just described. You can piecemeal it and possibly even build your own hotspot. This route would be the least expensive but involves the highest risk in getting everything to play nice with each other. On the other end of the spectrum, having the lowest risk of everything working straight out of the box but also carrying the highest price tag, is the BridgeCom Plug-N-Play package of an AnyTone AT-D878UVII PLUS with SkyBridge Plus hotspot.

Take some time looking at the BridgeCom products and their videos to get your feet wet with DMR radio. Then come back with some questions.

There is also System Fusion, D-STAR, P25 and NXDN in the world of digital radio. Similar in concept and we can talk about those protocols too.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Thanks, that all sounds interesting!

Regarding the digital hotspot stuff, it sounds like that is sort of like a traditional repeater, but uses the internet as the repeater? I will definitely read up on all this stuff once I pass my tests. I'm in study mode for now, but it's going well.

 

[K4EET]

<snip>
Regarding the digital hotspot stuff, it sounds like that is sort of like a traditional repeater, but uses the internet as the repeater?
<snip>

Basically, yes, and it’s your own private low power repeater at that. Once you start watching some of the BridgeCom and other YouTube videos on this subject matter, things will become a lot clearer.

 

[mass-man]

Regarding your original question, it’s gonna be all about the antenna! I’ve never run over 25watts for the past 50 years! Modest but quality antennas…how high is a big factor!, a piece of wire at 20ft, MEH, at 50ft, BETTER…know what bands are open, when and just go for it! Get a rig with the best receiver you can so you can dig out the weaker signals that might be hearing you…

 

[K4EET]

Regarding your original question, it’s gonna be all about the antenna!
<snip>

@SpaceForceCmdr has a very small backyard with overhead power lines as shown in the following photograph that they posted in another thread.



A loop antenna for HF may be their safest route if they want to investigate the total cost for an HF station. I suggested the DMR with a hotspot route because it gets them on the air talking to DX stations (which is their objective) while additional planning goes into what an HF station might look like. Please feel free to elaborate on an HF station configuration including budgeting costs.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[mass-man]

OOH, that's gonna be tough. It may very well be that a hotspot is their window to the DX world! Might be candidate for DMR at home, and a QRP setup at the nearest park or hilltop! Heck I've got much the same problem with no real trees, a two story house with a metal roof and uncooperative neighbors when it comes to wires and the like. Thus off to the park I go with my HF rig!!

 

[K4EET]

<snip>
Heck I've got much the same problem with no real trees, a two story house with a metal roof and uncooperative neighbors when it comes to wires and the like. Thus off to the park I go with my HF rig!!

Yup, a friend of mine is in the same boat and he has a DMR HT with digital hotspot at home and is in the process of putting together a portable, battery-powered HF station for traveling to various parks and making Parks On The Air (POTA) activations.

 

[mass-man]

If the OP is still around, the POTA thing is a lot of fun...both working parks and activating! Heck you can sit in your car and work HF...

 

[alcahuete]

Don't forget the power of a vertical. Everyone seems to think you have to run hundreds of feet of wire everywhere, and that just isn't the case. But for some reason, that's the go-to.

When I lived in an HOA, I ran a Cushcraft vertical a mere 5 ft. off the ground. Talked all around the world. My friend who lives in a HOA uses a DX Commander and does the same. We have had no problem making the 11,000 mile trip to Africa using 100W.

Is it the most ideal setup? Of course not. But it works. For me, sending my signal through the internet is not DX. I do use the DMR networks every now and then and enjoy DMR, but I could just get on Skype and talk to someone in Germany or England if that's all I want to do. There's no DX about that.

 

[K4EET]

Don't forget the power of a vertical.
<snip>

Unfortunately, even a Cushcraft R7 (40 Meters to 10 Meters) vertical antenna is 22.5 feet high sans any mast which may be ⚠️ dangerous ⚠️ in the OP’s electrically congested environment.

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

If the OP is still around, the POTA thing is a lot of fun...both working parks and activating! Heck you can sit in your car and work HF...

Is that sort of like SOTA? I joined that website, but keep forgetting to try it out.

 

[K4EET]

Is that sort of like SOTA? I joined that website, but keep forgetting to try it out.

Yes, Summits On The Air (SOTA) is exactly the same thing. In SOTA, one transmits from summits. In POTA, one transmits from parks.

 

[tweiss3]

Using DMR, Yaesu System Fusion, P25 or NXDN will be the easiest way for you to get to other countries with a simple HT and hotspot, especially if you are just starting out as a Technician. This will also be the least expensive.

If you do ever get your General, or higher, you could look into HF, even at low power can be very successful. You could look into a lot of what people use for SOTA/POTA activations. For those expeditions, typically you want light and easy to put up and tear down, and reasonable size for you to carry.

Keep in mind, you are going to spend some money, but some used gear can be found reasonably.

For antennas, you have a few options that would be good for your space.
1) Screwdriver, think Little Tarheel II (6m-80m coverage), but requires good ground plane, which you could construct even in a small yard. I have mine on the car, and it works great, even at 10W.
2) Buddistick Pro, made by the Buddipole guys. With the tripod, it tops out at 8' when setup for 40m, and the counterpoise wire isn't too long. This antenna works well. I fought through a pileup using 5W into Italy with ease.

For radios, there are tons of options, both used and new:
IC-7300-100W(both new and used available)
IC-705-5/10W (both new and used available)
FT-817-5W (used)
FT-818-6W (both new and used)
Xeigu G90-20W (both new and used)
FT-891-100W (both new and used)
FT-991A-100W (both new and used)


Of course, there are other options available as well.

 

[alcahuete]

Unfortunately, even a Cushcraft R7 (40 Meters to 10 Meters) vertical antenna is 22.5 feet high sans any mast which may be ⚠ dangerous ⚠ in the OP’s electrically congested environment.

Eh, it's all relative. Waking up in the morning and living life is dangerous. Of course you have to be careful putting up a vertical if you're around the power lines, but I don't see anything in that picture that is just so congested, it would be prohibitive. Heck, that roof is just begging for a tripod tower with something on top. I don't see any lines at all running over the roof. Of course they just might not visible in the pic.

 

[K4EET]

<snip>
Heck, that roof is just begging for a tripod tower with something on top. I don't see any lines at all running over the roof. Of course they just might not visible in the pic.

Maybe the OP can answer that observation.

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Eh, it's all relative. Waking up in the morning and living life is dangerous. Of course you have to be careful putting up a vertical if you're around the power lines, but I don't see anything in that picture that is just so congested, it would be prohibitive. Heck, that roof is just begging for a tripod tower with something on top. I don't see any lines at all running over the roof. Of course they just might not visible in the pic.

I could put something up on my roof, but don't really want to for aesthetic reasons.

What about small antennas I could put in the unfinished part of my attic? Would any of those work for DX on the HF?