Looking to make DX contacts with low-power gear

[K2QWQ1]

I'm am very new to this hobby, and have just been listening up to this point. Right now, I find myself most interesting in contacting countries outside the US. However, I don't think my current house is going to be good for an elaborate setup, and I'm antenna challenged (small yard, powerlines all over, etc). Another member made the suggestion below, and I was hoping to get some more advice. I'm guessing repeaters will come into play, among other things.

Basically, I'm looking to start out simple, and would like a very basic setup that's capable of contacting other countries. In short, DX'ing with a small radio. Not sure this is even possible, otherwise why would people build huge and antennas and whatnot, but thought I'd ask

It is just me, but making so-called DX contacts on digital will indeed get around poor location and antenna situations, but all of the heavy lifting has been done by Joe Taylor and such eliminating some of what has made Amateur Radio what it is. Making and experimenting with antennas for one. Learning how to listen in noisy conditions, staying on top of propagation condx are others. If just making a contact is all that counts, digital is fine but it amounts to little more than the fake QSOs on QRZ.com. All said however, even with digi, low power requires the best you can get for an antenna. Attic antennas can work well, even on the high HF bands, dipoles strung around a ceiling of a room can work surprisingly well. RF does not much care about passing thru wood and drywall if your wall studs are not metal.

Loops are an expensive but good option for limited space - no need to be high in the air.

Good luck ES 73, DE K2QWQ

 

[tweiss3]

Echolink began as a protocol for connecting repeaters or nodes via the Internet using VoIP technologies. The intent was that a user would talk to a repeater using a radio and that repeater would then be linked to another repeater. I believe that the app for connecting to the Echolink system without a radio came along later.

You are right, I forgot it was buried in the sysop side of echolink, but he would never see that. It should also be noted, typically the repeater user (OP) would not be able to operate echolink to connect to other repeaters, its mostly used now to connect back to the home repeater when out of town.

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

So, after doing some more reading, I think the answer to my initial question is "good luck". I think I could probably get by with a simple dipole in my attic, however, the real dilemma is the gear. Being a simple guy, I thought it'd be nice to get a really basic, HF transceiver, but I am slowly learning that that's not likely. Ideally, I'd like to just plug it in, hook up an antenna, and be DX'ing, but I see that the starting price for HF radios is $500+, plus I'd need a power supply, probably antenna tuner and an assortment of other gear. Maybe someday, but right now, I don't even have the space on my desk for all this stuff.

 

[K4EET]

<snip>
Maybe someday, but right now, I don't even have the space on my desk for all this stuff.

Yes, an HF station needs more real estate than a VHF/UHF station in most cases. Of course, there are exceptions, but that is beyond the scope of this thread. I hope we have helped and know that we will be here for you if any additional questions should arise. Good luck on your testing this weekend. Cheers! Dave K4EET

 

[krokus]

So, after doing some more reading, I think the answer to my initial question is "good luck". I think I could probably get by with a simple dipole in my attic, however, the real dilemma is the gear. Being a simple guy, I thought it'd be nice to get a really basic, HF transceiver, but I am slowly learning that that's not likely. Ideally, I'd like to just plug it in, hook up an antenna, and be DX'ing, but I see that the starting price for HF radios is $500+, plus I'd need a power supply, probably antenna tuner and an assortment of other gear. Maybe someday, but right now, I don't even have the space on my desk for all this stuff.

The uBitX HF radios cost much less than that, but are low power radios.

uBitx – The All-band HF Amateur Radio Transceiver: Just waiting to be modified

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

So, an update to this thread. I decided to just go for it and get a FTDX-10. Also, some of you may have seen my other posts about antennas in the attic. I put a 20m dipole up there as high as I could, right under the peak of the roof. My reception is reasonable, but I've not made any contacts yet. I think it's a case of the other end not hearing me. When I pick up someone with a strong signal, I'll see where they are and load up a web sdr there. When I transmit, not even a blip shows up (except for once when I made it to GA from here in OH).

Are there no attic antennas that could enable be to do voice SSB on HF? Not sure what to do at this point. I know there is CW and digital modes, but not sure that's worth dropping 1400 bucks on a radio for. The FTDX is an awesome rig, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to use it to even a fraction of its potential.

 

[K4EET]

<snip> The FTDX is an awesome rig, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to use it to even a fraction of its potential.

Sure you will. As a ham, anything is possible! LOL!

Where you have your antenna now, I believe part of it runs over a room or two to give you maximum length, how long of an antenna can you fit in there? I am thinking that you should go with some form of an Alpha Delta fan dipole like I use here at my QTH. They have traps in the legs to make it electrically shorter than a full size dipole. Take a look at these antennas:

Antennas for HAM Radio | DX Engineering

Shop HAM radio antennas, antenna systems, and antenna components from the best: DX Engineering, Cushcraft, Hy-Gain, Hustler, COMTEK SYSTEMS, Diamond & more.

www.dxengineering.com

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Max length I can do is about 30 feet, and even then, the one end bends for a few feet. I'm wondering if part of the problem is that I'm using a dipole. Since it's indoors, and fairly close to the ground (really close if it sees the metal-backed attic insulation it's over as the ground), it's radiating most of it's energy upward, which is not good for DX. It sounds like a vertical antenna would be more ideal for that, BUT they are very long and I have no room for one. Someone at DX Engineering mentioned this:

Yaesu ATAS-120A Yaesu ATAS-120A Auto Active Tuning Antennas | DX Engineering

Free Shipping - Yaesu ATAS-120A Auto Active Tuning Antennas with qualifying orders of $99. Shop HF/VHF/UHF Mobile Vertical Antennas at DX Engineering.

www.dxengineering.com

But I'm not sure how well this would work indoors, plus I'd need to ground it to something.

 

[popnokick]

I know there is CW and digital modes, but not sure that's worth dropping 1400 bucks on a radio for. The FTDX is an awesome rig, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to use it to even a fraction of its potential.

I'm confused. You have an FTDX10. Why would you need to spend another $1400 on a radio for CW and digital modes? You do realize that all the FTDX10 needs is a USB cable between your computer and the radio, configuration (plenty of info on YouTube and elsewhere) and you'll be on FT8 via WSJT-X? And other digital modes as well. No need to add external modem, etc.
Incidentally - 6 Meters was on fire this past weekend with FT8. DX to Europe was pouring in... so much so that many of the stations in the VHF Contest dropped out of FT8 "contest mode" to work the DX. A 6 Meter antenna is quite capable of fitting in your attic, although you should check what you have already.... with a tuner it may load up on 6. You are using a tuner (other than the one in the radio), correct?

 

[FreqNout]

I'm confused. You have an FTDX10. Why would you need to spend another $1400 on a radio for CW and digital modes?

Based on other threads, the OP is not having success on voice with his indoor antenna. He may be saying if he can not use voice, the money spent may not be worth it to him.

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

I'm confused. You have an FTDX10. Why would you need to spend another $1400 on a radio for CW and digital modes? You do realize that all the FTDX10 needs is a USB cable between your computer and the radio, configuration (plenty of info on YouTube and elsewhere) and you'll be on FT8 via WSJT-X? And other digital modes as well. No need to add external modem, etc.
Incidentally - 6 Meters was on fire this past weekend with FT8. DX to Europe was pouring in... so much so that many of the stations in the VHF Contest dropped out of FT8 "contest mode" to work the DX. A 6 Meter antenna is quite capable of fitting in your attic, although you should check what you have already.... with a tuner it may load up on 6. You are using a tuner (other than the one in the radio), correct?

Sorry, I wasn't totally clear. I do already have the FTDX, but was just thinking it's overkill if I'm only going to be doing digital. I did manage to get FT8 figured last night, and luckily I had a USB with the right connector lying around. Made a contact with the Netherlands, which is pretty cool. I'll admit, at first FT8 didn't excite me a whole lot. I got it working in monitor mode when I was using my SDR, but not that I can transmit, it is pretty neat to realize I reached out to someone nearly 4000 miles away. My signal report was -15, though.

I'm just using the internal tuner on the radio right now. It tunes the antenna on 20m, and I think I also got it to tune on 6m, but that's about it.

Based on other threads, the OP is not having success on voice with his indoor antenna. He may be saying if he can not use voice, the money spent may not be worth it to him.

Yep, that's what I meant. I do like the radio, but if I knew I'd have such a hard time doing SSB, I may have gotten something for a lot less $$$.

 

[tweiss3]

SSB can be tough until you get the hang of it. You really need to get the hang of tuning around to see what you can find. A waterfall display, like on the IC7300, can be a massive help, but isn't necessarily required, but you will need some practice. This past weekend was the VHF contest, so HF might have been pretty abandoned, and I know there were a ton on 6m taking advantage of the opening.

Max length I can do is about 30 feet, and even then, the one end bends for a few feet. I'm wondering if part of the problem is that I'm using a dipole. Since it's indoors, and fairly close to the ground (really close if it sees the metal-backed attic insulation it's over as the ground), it's radiating most of it's energy upward, which is not good for DX. It sounds like a vertical antenna would be more ideal for that, BUT they are very long and I have no room for one.

It sounds like you might have room for a 64' wire, run around the edge as a loop, an end-fed half wave for 40/20/15/10 is 64 feet long and just might work well for you. Just an option. MyAntennas has a really nice one, or you could DIY.

Someone at DX Engineering mentioned this:

Yaesu ATAS-120A Yaesu ATAS-120A Auto Active Tuning Antennas | DX Engineering

Free Shipping - Yaesu ATAS-120A Auto Active Tuning Antennas with qualifying orders of $99. Shop HF/VHF/UHF Mobile Vertical Antennas at DX Engineering.

www.dxengineering.com

But I'm not sure how well this would work indoors, plus I'd need to ground it to something.

All screwdriver antennas need a proper ground plane/mass of metal to be effective, but yes, you could use one inside, just be mindful about your RF exposure.

The ATAS antenna is nice for a few reasons, but it has its downfalls as well.
Pros: Works out of the box with your Yaesu radio, will get you on HF 40m through 6m (includes 2m and 440 use as well).
Cons: Delicate, stops at 40m, still needs significant ground plane, other better made options are available.

I suggest looking at the Little Tarheel II, it gets you 80m through 6m, and is very well made. In fact, last Friday, while on the road, I participated on the local 80m net with mine, using only 10W on my IC705, from 300 miles away, and was able to listen to the entire 90 minute net.