Looking to make DX contacts with low-power gear

[tweiss3]

I could put something up on my roof, but don't really want to for aesthetic reasons.

What about small antennas I could put in the unfinished part of my attic? Would any of those work for DX on the HF?

You could do an endfed halfwave in a loop around the attic perimeter.

Steve Nichols G0KYA's book might be a good read for you: Stealth Antennas: 3rd Edition, Nichols, Steve, eBook - Amazon.com

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Thanks, that's a possibility. I don't think I can get it around the whole perimeter because a lot of it is finished. However, about 1/3 or so of the attic is unfinished, and that's where I have my long wire now. The area that's accessible is about 25-30 ft long by maybe 10-15 feet wide.

 

[w2xq]

I'm am very new to this hobby, and have just been listening up to this point. Right now, I find myself most interesting in contacting countries outside the US. However, I don't think my current house is going to be good for an elaborate setup, and I'm antenna challenged (small yard, powerlines all over, etc). Another member made the suggestion below, and I was hoping to get some more advice. I'm guessing repeaters will come into play, among other things.

Basically, I'm looking to start out simple, and would like a very basic setup that's capable of contacting other countries. In short, DX'ing with a small radio. Not sure this is even possible, otherwise why would people build huge and antennas and whatnot, but thought I'd ask

With all due respect, I think you are mixing apples and oranges. I am not sure what you seeking to do.

At first glance, I thought you were asking about pursuing contacts with other countries. Assuming you have a Technician license, you will have access to portions of the 10m band. Going into the new solar cycle, the band will open for Sporadic-E and F2 propagation. The 10m band isn't open all the time, but when it is you'll have fun.. Getting on 10m with an HF radio and a relatively small/short antenna is relatively simple to do.

Upgrading to a General license would allow you on other HF bands, lower in frequency and corresponding larger antenna. Those bands are open worldwide more often.

If you learn the Morse Code, you'll quickly see that CW is a great equalizer for a smaller antenna setup.

Others suggest DMR radios. These digital radios are mostly handheld units operating on 440 MHz. The cost of these radios typically range from ~$100 to ~$350; I use a TYT MD-UV380 handheld (~$110) rather than the expensive Anytone that is heavily advertised in QST. The DMR radio will let you talk with amateurs from other counties through repeaters or hotspots. There isn't any challenge to talking worldwide using talkgroups; most if not all DMR repeaters have only a few talkgroups whereas a hotspot let's you on all the talkgroups. A hotspot can be a PiStar Raspberry PI unit that is relatively inexpensive. The SharkRF openSPOT is the other type of hotspot but it is costly at ~$330.

If DMR Is what you seek, I strongly urge you to read through Amateur Radio Notes by KE0FHS by KE0FHS. If you are interested in using a PiStar hotspot, the next stop is Home - pistar.uk and that website includes a list of the ~400 talkgroups

The ARRL Operating Manual 12th Edition gives you an overall view of what you can do with your license. I'd recommend looking through the bookstore to see what else may be of interest. Many of the ARRL publications are also available through Amazon.

You ought to check out your local library to see if any anateur radio books and magazines are shelved. The cost? Time invested to get a library card.

You might consider joining a local amateur radio club. See Search for ARRL Affiliated Clubs as a starting point. Having local Amateurs to answer questions is helpful.

And I have a few amateur radio links, including DMR and radio propagation, on my website. Some of the articles in my Bibliography may be of interest; these are a but dated but they may give you an idea.

Hope this helps to clarify your thinking.

 

[popnokick]

I could put something up on my roof, but don't really want to for aesthetic reasons.

What about small antennas I could put in the unfinished part of my attic? Would any of those work for DX on the HF?

Small antenna in attic? Yep, try it... either loop or wire around perimeter. Vertical? Yep, try it (if no power line proximity). Digital mode with hotspot? Yep, try it. Satellites with small antennas in yard pointing skyward into space? Yep, try it.
Welcome to the Amateur Radio world of endless exploration and "try its".

 

[K4EET]

@w2xq, very nice write up for @SpaceForceCmdr. Since I have been talking with the OP the most, I’ll tell you what I know. They are going for the test very soon and will be trying for both the Technician and General class Licenses. They have been monitoring HF using an SDR dongle and a random length wire in the attic. They want to talk to foreign stations whether it initially be with an HT/hotspot or HF rig. They are severely antenna challenged and prefer not to put a tripod/vertical on the roof for aesthetic reasons. All of us have been kicking around ideas on what the OP can do to meet their goal (talk to foreign stations).

A lot of new Technicians are going the digital HT and hotspot route because their local clubs have a digital repeater too. Like you said, the hotspot just allows access to all of the network talkgroups. HF comes as a second step. But of course, it is entirely up to the OP as to what route they want to follow as they get their feet wet in the wonderful world of Amateur Radio.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[popnokick]

Verticals on rooftops for HF work are not very practical due to the size of the RF ground counterpoise needed. And as you raise a vertical above the ground, the need for a radial field / counterpoise becomes even more critical. Most people don't have the size rooftop to enable a large number of very long radials that are needed. Exception would be a metal roof... which can provide the RF counterpoise. If you're going to use a vertical, plan on a mount on / close to the ground.... with radials.

 

[K4EET]

Hi @popnokick, when we were talking 40 meter vertical antennas, I was actually thinking about the Cushcraft R7 which is an end-fed design whereby requiring no counterpoise/radials. But the OP was against that idea anyway. 73, Dave K4EET

 

[w2xq]

@w2xq, very nice write up for @SpaceForceCmdr. Since I have been talking with the OP the most, I’ll tell you what I know.

OK Dave. He'll find out that something has to give to get on HF. Something has to give. Perhaps for HF a Slinky antenna in the attic may work to a point; CW is a great equalizer. Personally, guven his unwillingness to put anything outside, I would forget about HF and just get a DMR HT and buy/build a hotspot. BrandMeister talkgroup 91 will give him all the foreign stations he can handle; lengthy conversations should be moved off 91 to the new talkgroups 901-903. HTH.

 

[jwt873]

Radio wise.. It would help to know your budget.. You can spend over $20,000 on a single ham radio.

Are you looking for HF DX, or are you looking to talk to other countries using the internet linking functions that are available on local VHF/UHF repeaters?

For HF, assuming you're just going to write for your US Tech license and plan to use SSB, you're limited to a small portion of 10 meters. You can construct simple antennas for 10.. Either a horizontal dipole that is 17-18 feet long.. Or for vertical orientation you could construct a J-pole or ground plane that would be around 8 feet high. Years ago I had a 10 Meter ground plane on the roof.. Worked Australia with it. But that was at a sunspot cycle peak.

As mentioned, 10 meters should be picking up as the current sunspot cycle increases. But, note that you can go many days or even weeks, (especially in the winter) when you'll hear absolutely nothing on the band.

It's possible to reach other countries on six meters too.. But these openings are very rare and there will be much longer silent periods.

For talking to other countries using VHF/UHF repeaters... there are a host of linking methods using the various digital modes. There is some analog linking as well.

For instance, if you have a D-STAR capable VHF or UHF radio, and a nearby D-STAR repeater, you can tell the repeater to link to Reflector 001CL. When that happens your local signal will be routed through the internet to many repeaters in other countries. This lets you chat with hams around the world. but note, you are using the internet.

You can link with DMR and Fusion repeaters too, but the methods are different.

 

[K4EET]

@w2xq, thanks for stopping by again. Yes, something has to give and some form of a HF antenna in the attic may be the path to investigate. IIRC, only part of the attic is available as the other part has been finished off into a room. Going the HT/hotspot route may be a logical first step in that they will get as a Technician licensee:

• Local FM repeaters on 2 Meters
• Local FM repeaters on 70 centimeters
• Local FM simplex on 144 MHz
• Local FM simplex on 440 MHz
• Local DMR repeaters on 2 Meters
• Local DMR repeaters on 70 centimeters
• Local digital simplex on 144 MHz
• Local digital simplex on 440 MHz
• Via HotSpot - These Destinations

I probably should mention, the DMR repeaters may or may not have connectivity to the Internet allowing for connections to the above destinations.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[N4GIX]

Yes, Summits On The Air (SOTA) is exactly the same thing. In SOTA, one transmits from summits. In POTA, one transmits from parks.

Would it be considered "cheating" to claim POTA since I actually live in the Hot Springs National Park (Arkansas)?

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

OK Dave. He'll find out that something has to give to get on HF. Something has to give. Perhaps for HF a Slinky antenna in the attic may work to a point; CW is a great equalizer. Personally, guven his unwillingness to put anything outside, I would forget about HF and just get a DMR HT and buy/build a hotspot. BrandMeister talkgroup 91 will give him all the foreign stations he can handle; lengthy conversations should be moved off 91 to the new talkgroups 901-903. HTH.

Thanks for the informative post, and also thanks to the others who commented. I think the DMR route might be something I'm interested in. It does seem a little like "cheating" since I'd be using the internet, but since it's an internet/radio hybrid system, I kind of like the idea. It sounds like a fusion of old school and new school. Most of my radio time now is spent SWL-ing, and I've been hearing people from all over the country. I usually look them up on QRZ, and then I see their setups. Most have a shack filled with stacks of equipment, and monstrous antennas in their yards! There's no way that's going to happen for me, at least not at my current house in the 'burbs. Maybe someday if I have some land. It would be nice of transmitting were as simple as receiving, but I see that's not the case at all!

So, as for my interests....I like hearing distant contacts, and letting them know I've heard (although, I can't do that now, just listen). I'm not sure I'd really like to have long conversations with random people. TBH, I don't even like talking on the phone much. However, it'd be cool just to say hello. I will definitely have to look into the DMR stuff some more. I'm taking my tech and general exam next weekend, so first things first =)

 

[N4GIX]

Best of luck on your tests. I took both Tech and General at the same session myself. I kind of wish now I'd gone ahead and tried to pass the Extra as well!

 

[K4EET]

<snip>
I'm taking my tech and general exam next weekend, so first things first =)

May the Force be with you! Also, as @N4GIX mentioned they wished they had done, after you pass the Technician and General exams, go ahead and ask to take the Extra exam. You have nothing to lose even if you haven’t looked at the question pool. It’s a longer 50 question test but you might know enough answers to pass your Extra for the Clean Sweep! Best wishes my friend for a very successful day!

73, Dave K4EET

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Also, looking at the repeaters in my county, 8 of them have echolink capability, while only 2 can do D-star, and 1 does DMR.

 

[K4EET]

Also, looking at the repeaters in my county, 8 of them have echolink capability, while only 2 can do D-star, and 1 does DMR.

D-STAR is another digital system that ICOM and Kenwood support. Due to the CODEC that they use, their system is “landlocked” and no other systems can talk to them via crossmode communications. DMR on the other hand can crossmode to Yaesu Fusion, P25, NXDN and any others that use the same CODEC.

A repeater that has EchoLink capability means that in addition to accessing the repeater via RF, you can also access it via the Internet using EchoLink via its node number. Therefore, a ham operator in California could access our 146.805 MHz repeater in Millersville, Maryland because it has an active EchoLink node. That would enable them to talk to me on 2 Meters from my home QTH (location).

Does that help or does that muddy the waters?

73, Dave K4EET

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

That helps, thanks. It's a bit confusing since there's so many systems, but I'm reading about them. Just want to make sure that if I decide on a certain one, and get a radio that handles it, I'll actually be able to use it in my area.

 

[tweiss3]

Echolink is just a method to connect into a repeater without using a radio, you use your phone or computer with a program/app.

Which county are you in? There are a ton of good groups in Ohio, and depending on where you are, I'd like to get you hooked into a live person in your county that can tell you what is on the air and what isn't.

 

[AK9R]

Echolink is just a method to connect into a repeater without using a radio...

Echolink began as a protocol for connecting repeaters or nodes via the Internet using VoIP technologies. The intent was that a user would talk to a repeater using a radio and that repeater would then be linked to another repeater. I believe that the app for connecting to the Echolink system without a radio came along later.