Losing Avoids When Updating Database

[gn32772]

Hi. I'm trying to figure out how to "avoid" losing my Avoids when updating the database. (This is for the 436.) Here's what i'm doing In Sentinel:

1.Write from Scanner
2.Save Profile
3.Update Database
4.Write to Scanner

After doing this, my Avoids are gone in the scanner. Yet my Favorites are still there. When i do the Write to Scanner, doesn't that restore the profile that i saved?

Any help is appreciated. I don't see any instructions included in Sentinel.

George

 

[troymail]

Hi. I'm trying to figure out how to "avoid" losing my Avoids when updating the database. (This is for the 436.) Here's what i'm doing In Sentinel:

1.Write from Scanner
2.Save Profile
3.Update Database
4.Write to Scanner

After doing this, my Avoids are gone in the scanner. Yet my Favorites are still there. When i do the Write to Scanner, doesn't that restore the profile that i saved?

Any help is appreciated. I don't see any instructions included in Sentinel.

George

There seem to be a couple of variations in Avoids at least with regard to avoids for individual trunked system talkgroups.

Avoids I set on talkgroups within Sentinel stay avoided on transfer to/from the radio.

Avoids set on KNOWN/programmed talkgroups on the radio are lost when transferred into Sentinel if the avoid was temporary (single avoid button press).

Avoids set on KNOWN/programmed talkgroups on the radio are preserved when transferred into Sentinel if the avoid was permanent (double avoid button press).

All avoids set on non-programmed talkgroups (ID SEARCH mode) appear to be lost if they aren't stored as a new talkgroup.

 

[Jay911]

Avoids are definitely saved when updating - I have some that I avoided when I first got the scanner many months ago.

Forgive the question, but you're talking about permanent avoids, right? If you've done them from the radio, while the radio is operating, you have to hit avoid twice in order to make them "stick". Temporary avoids (hitting it once) are wiped out when the scanner power-cycles, is reprogrammed, or moves to a new area and has to load the database again.

 

[gn32772]

Yes, i'm referring to permanent avoids, mostly on conventional channels, that i set on the scanner. I don't use Sentinel for anything other than updating the database.

Is it necessary to save my profile to Sentinel before updating the database, in order to preserve my avoids, settings, etc? If it is, i must not be saving and restoring my profile correctly.

 

[Jay911]

Saving the profile shouldn't be necessary prior to doing a DB update. The profile is the non-database-related configuration (i.e. display settings, search settings, etc). The only involvement your profile has wih the DB (and any favorites lists) is that the profile tells your scanner what you want to scan (in the "Scan Selection" and "Service Types" pages of the edit profile screen).

You haven't mentioned (or if you have, I've missed it) if the avoids in question are in the full database, your favorites lists, or both. Assuming that the avoids are in your favorites lists, I have this to say: When you read FROM the scanner, Sentinel might pop up one (or more) warnings that your favorites lists on the scanner differ from the ones in Sentinel. In order to preserve anything from the scanner, like avoids that are present, you must choose "Copy & Replace on PC". Likewise, when you are writing TO the scanner, any time those warnings pop up, you have to choose the top option, "Copy & Replace On Scanner".

Now, regardless of whether it is favorites lists or full database where the avoids you want are stored, this test should work. Do a read from scanner, then in the left side of your Sentinel software, expand the options to locate a channel you know has (or should have) avoids on it. You should see that channel shown in red on the right hand side of the screen with "Avoid" between the channel name and the frequency. Then, do your update (Update->Update Master HPDB). After that is finished, check that channel again, and it still should be red. Then, do a write to scanner, and make sure you choose "Copy & Replace On Scanner" if you get prompted. When that's done, your radio should be updated, with the avoids preserved.

Let us know what the outcome of this is..

 

[hiegtx]

Yes, i'm referring to permanent avoids, mostly on conventional channels, that i set on the scanner. I don't use Sentinel for anything other than updating the database.

Is it necessary to save my profile to Sentinel before updating the database, in order to preserve my avoids, settings, etc? If it is, i must not be saving and restoring my profile correctly.

If you are setting a permanent avoid in the scanner, but not also avoiding it in Sentinel, then when you write the update to the scanner, it will flip the channel off the avoid. You might want to read from the scanner to Sentinel before updating to eliminate the mismatching. That way the Sentinel profile matches what the scanner currently has.

Note that if you are updating the database, then appending any updated channels/talkgroups/systems to your Favorites list(s) before writing back to the scanner, you'd also take out the avoid in Sentinel.

 

[Voyager]

Do your AVOIDs show in Sentinel after you read the scanner?

 

[gn32772]

"Do your AVOIDs show in Sentinel after you read the scanner?"

Yes, they are in red in Sentinel, before doing the update..

I think what Steve said applies to my situation. "If you are setting a permanent avoid in the scanner, but not also avoiding it in Sentinel, then when you write the update to the scanner, it will flip the channel off the avoid." I don't do anything in Sentinel, other than the database update. So apparently the channels not being set to avoid in Sentinel, overrides them having been set to avoid in the scanner.

Jay911 says that there's no need to save my profile to Sentinel before updating, because the profile doesn't contain the avoid status. So that sounds like all i need to do is read from scanner, update database, write to scanner. But every time i've done that, i've lost my avoids.

 

[Jay911]

Saving your profile only saves one small file to disk that contains your profile settings - and your profile settings are things like your volume and squelch, startup screen text, which favorites lists to use, and which service tags to use.

It's true that the avoid settings are stored in your profile folder, but if your avoid settings are being wiped out, something's not working right. I still don't know if these avoids are in your favorites or the main database.

If it's the main database:

I forget where the initial installation stores your data, because I have moved mine to a different location. But you can figure out where your data is by going Tools>Options in the main Sentinel window.

Go to that folder in Windows Explorer, then in that folder, choose Profile, then select the profile in question, then HPDB. Inside that folder you should see several .avd files. Do you?

If the "missing" avoids are in your favorites lists, the state of those avoids are stored in the favorites lists themselves. Your favorites lists are stored in a different location - in the folder mentioned above where you chose Profile, choose instead FavoriteLists, and you should see several .hpd files. These are your favorite lists.

Lastly, here's the step-by-step process for updating your scanner. This will ensure that everything that's in your scanner when you start this process should be there when you finish, with the exception of the the updated main database. (Forgive me if this is stuff you already know - I figure it can't hurt to share it.)

First thing to know: You can update the database in Sentinel at any time you wish, irrespective of whether you have the scanner connected or not. The Sentinel database is ready to be downloaded from the Uniden server every Monday morning at about 10AM MDT.

So let's start with updating the database. Start Sentinel, and click on either the second-last icon on the toolbar (a picture of a globe with a computer screen in front of it), or click on "Update Master HPDB" inside the "Update" menu item. You'll get a dialog box that comes up showing the process. Eventually you'll either get an update complete message, or a 'this database is the current version' message. Either way, once that's done, in the lower left corner of the program screen, you'll see the date of the most recent database, which will hopefully be the most recent Sunday (mine currently says "Database Version: 03-15-2015").

Anyway, the process of reading and updating the scanner is this:

- Plug in the scanner, wait for it to be recognized.
- In Sentinel, select Scanner>Read From Scanner.
- Choose your scanner on the dialog box which shows up next.
- Run through the prompts, and as I said in previous messages, if you're prompted, choose "Copy & Replace on Computer".
- Once it's done copying, check in the database browser to confirm your avoids are present.
- In Sentinel, select Scanner>Write To Scanner.
- Choose your scanner on the dialog box which shows up next.
- There's an option you can try here, and in your case, it's probably wise to use it. Select BOTH of the boxes in the dialog, which state "Erase Favorites Lists on Scanner" and "Force Write Full Database". The one about the full database is not normally used, but can help repair problems if your database somehow gets corrupted. The one about the favorites lists I use quite a bit more often. It seems like from time to time, your scanner can get multiple copies of your FLs on the SD card, and confuse itself, with an older copy of a favorite being used instead of a newer updated one. Using this check box will wipe out all the data in the FavoriteLists folder I mentioned above, and put new data in from the computer.
- When this is done, a pop-up will say that the update is complete. Don't forget to use the Safely Remove Hardware function in Windows before you pull the USB cord out.

At that stage, your scanner should be updated, and you should still have your avoids. If you don't have your avoids, my next step would be to uninstall Sentinel and reinstall it.

 

[marksmith]

Whatever avoids you do on the scanner need to be done on sentinel also in order to preserve for the next time you write from pc to scanner. I always upload what is in the scanner to sentinel before making any changes.

That way newly found talkgroups in favorites lists, and other stuff like avoids become part of what is in sentinel.

It's correct that avoids are not in the profile but you are moving favorites lists and database back and forth from the scanner/pc, not just profile.

If you never put them in sentinel and then you copy stuff from sentinel to the radio, it will not have your avoids.

Mark
BCD536HP/HP-1E/HP-2E/BCD996XT/BCD396XT(2)/BCD996T/PSR-800/PRO-96 +

 

[Voyager]

Let me clarify something. You are scanning the main dB, and perm AVOIDing a channel there, and you are then updating the main dB (not a FL) and losing the AVOID. Is that correct? If so, I would expect that, as the index likely changed for that channel. It's also possible it could be moved to a different Department, or a Department with a different name, or about a dozen other things that can change how it is found.

Solution: Make a FL out of the dB, then those AVOIDs will 'stick'. But, the FL won't be updated when you update the main dB.

 

[lacadien72]

Yes, i'm referring to permanent avoids, mostly on conventional channels, that i set on the scanner. I don't use Sentinel for anything other than updating the database.

Is it necessary to save my profile to Sentinel before updating the database, in order to preserve my avoids, settings, etc? If it is, i must not be saving and restoring my profile correctly.

It is not necessary to save your profile.

If you referring to permanent avoids in the Full Database: it is normal that your permanent avoids are lost after an update. The Full Database gets overwritten completely every time you update the database.

If you referring to permanent avoids in your Favorite Lists: they should be preserved if you read from your scanner and select Copy & replace on PC:
1- read from scanner
2- Click "Copy & Replace on PC" (this will save your permanent avoids of you FL in Sentinel)

 

[gn32772]

"Let me clarify something. You are scanning the main dB, and perm AVOIDing a channel there, and you are then updating the main dB (not a FL) and losing the AVOID. Is that correct?"

Yes, that's right Voyager. But i'm losing all my avoids, not just a few.

I appreciate all the help, guys, but i'm getting more and more confused. At this point, i think i'd rather just accept losing the avoids and re-build them.

 

[gn32772]

Now i see that lacadien72 just said this: "If you referring to permanent avoids in the Full Database: it is normal that your permanent avoids are lost after an update. The Full Database gets overwritten completely every time you update the database."

This appears to settle it, assuming he is correct.

 

[Jay911]

With all due respect, he's not. Like I said, I have avoids in my full DB from almost a year ago.

The only way avoids would be circumvented is if channels changed their position in the DB, and that's somewhat rare. Next to impossible for all channels to change every week.

The way avoids in the full DB work, they are saved separately from the main DB, and say 'channel #23456 is avoided'. Either the avoid files are getting deleted (which means your Sentinel installation is corrupted), or the channel you want to avoid is no longer #23456 (unlikely, as I explained above).

 

[Voyager]

I'm suspecting that yours, Jay, are ones that have not changed in the RR dB while GN's have changed (at least some of them). This could even trace back to an admin update that causes the Department index to change even though there was no apparent change from a user standpoint. But, if the index changed, it's a "totally different animal" from the viewpoint of the scanner's AVOID list. Hence, the original AVOIDed channel no longer exists.

 

[gn32772]

I just checked my Sentinel, and it's "version 1.02, revision 1." Maybe i'll try re-downloading Sentinel, just for the heck of it.

 

[Jay911]

The newest version is 1.03 r01. Still, I ran 1.02 r01 as long as it was the most current one, and I never had an avoid removed that I didn't deliberately remove myself.