• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Loss of 467 on GMRS

VE3WTV

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
34
Location
Ontario, Canada
Industry Canada recently removed the entire 467 band (including channels 8 - 14) from the FRS/GMRS allocation. GMRS now has a total of 15 channels, leaving, imo, FRS totally superfluous.

I have searched the IC website, and other internet sources, trying to find out how the 467 frequencies have been allocated, and I've found nothing. IC has a chart which combines all of 460-470 together for land/mobile, with no mention of 467.

Specifically, I want to know what has become of:

Former FRS/GMRS

8
. 467.56
9. 467.5875
10. 467.6125
11. 467.6375
12. 467.6625
13. 467.69
14. 467.71

Unnumbered Frequencies
467.5500
467.5750
467.6000
467.6250
467.6500
467.6750
467.7000
467.7250
The last 8 frequencies listed were never part of FRS/GMRS, but were nevertheless included in the list as unnumbered channels in the database on this website. They seem to be just extra frequencies left for later, possible, use.

While older FRS/GMRS radios are capable of transmitting on channels 8 - 14, IC has now prohibited such use. Again, I cannot find info on how those frequencies are being allocated.

I have been unable to find any resource that lists the allocation of specific frequencies.

It seems that for those with capable radios, the last 8 frequencies are effectively 'private' channels, open to our use, since no consumer radio was ever programmed with them, although it is possible that they are being allocated to commercial interests, and one day I will hear such traffic if I'm listening on my travels.

I've scanned VHF and UHF extensively in Essex County, and aside from EMS in the 142 band, there is virtually no radio traffic in my area, and almost nothing on the FRS channels, possibly because many commercial interests have gone digital. I think you have to go to areas of marine and land recreational activities to hear anything at all.


 

chief21

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
1,139
Location
Summer - Western NC; Winter - Tampa Bay FL
Aren’t those last 8 467 freq’s [unnumbered frequencies] the inputs for GMRS repeaters?
Yes (in the US), but the OP is in Canada. I don't know if Canada has a GMRS-type service in UHF, but it sounds as if IC might have different plans for those 467 MHz frequencies if they actually removed the interstitial channels from the FRS pool.
 

chief21

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
1,139
Location
Summer - Western NC; Winter - Tampa Bay FL
Upon further searching, I found the following IC document...


Admittedly, I have have not read it thoroughly, but it appears to create a 14 channel FRS service (all 462 MHz) and a 15 channel GMRS service (all 462 MHz, with some channels being shared with FRS). All of the GMRS channels are simplex and there are no corresponding 467 repeater inputs.
 

PriorMike

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
205
Location
Arnprior, Ontario, Canada
Reading at the link, the only frequencies that are no longer available are the 467 repeater inputs, which were not being used for that anyway.

No suprise. I emailed Industry Canada about aligning our FRS/GMRS rules with the US, and the response was essentially, not going to happen, get a spectrum license if you want better than what FRS/GMRS offers.
 

PriorMike

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
205
Location
Arnprior, Ontario, Canada
Upon further searching, I found the following IC document...


Admittedly, I have have not read it thoroughly, but it appears to create a 14 channel FRS service (all 462 MHz) and a 15 channel GMRS service (all 462 MHz, with some channels being shared with FRS). All of the GMRS channels are simplex and there are no corresponding 467 repeater inputs.
If you have a look at Table 1 under paragraph 3.1, it clearly shows 467 mhz frequencies in FRS.
 

PriorMike

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
205
Location
Arnprior, Ontario, Canada
Industry Canada recently removed the entire 467 band (including channels 8 - 14) from the FRS/GMRS allocation. GMRS now has a total of 15 channels, leaving, imo, FRS totally superfluous.

I have searched the IC website, and other internet sources, trying to find out how the 467 frequencies have been allocated, and I've found nothing. IC has a chart which combines all of 460-470 together for land/mobile, with no mention of 467.

Specifically, I want to know what has become of:

Former FRS/GMRS

8
. 467.56
9. 467.5875
10. 467.6125
11. 467.6375
12. 467.6625
13. 467.69
14. 467.71

Unnumbered Frequencies
467.5500
467.5750
467.6000
467.6250
467.6500
467.6750
467.7000
467.7250
The last 8 frequencies listed were never part of FRS/GMRS, but were nevertheless included in the list as unnumbered channels in the database on this website. They seem to be just extra frequencies left for later, possible, use.

While older FRS/GMRS radios are capable of transmitting on channels 8 - 14, IC has now prohibited such use. Again, I cannot find info on how those frequencies are being allocated.

I have been unable to find any resource that lists the allocation of specific frequencies.

It seems that for those with capable radios, the last 8 frequencies are effectively 'private' channels, open to our use, since no consumer radio was ever programmed with them, although it is possible that they are being allocated to commercial interests, and one day I will hear such traffic if I'm listening on my travels.

I've scanned VHF and UHF extensively in Essex County, and aside from EMS in the 142 band, there is virtually no radio traffic in my area, and almost nothing on the FRS channels, possibly because many commercial interests have gone digital. I think you have to go to areas of marine and land recreational activities to hear anything at all.


The link posted above by chief21 is dated 2016 and shows 467 mhz frequencies under FRS. It clearly states that the 8 reserved "repeater inputs" are the ones being reallocated.
 

russbrill

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
35
Location
Sacramento, CA
Aren’t those last 8 467 freq’s [unnumbered frequencies] the inputs for GMRS repeaters?
I think Canada is giving US GMRS users a preview of what's to come in the US.. I don't think the FCC will remove the 467 MHz repeater inputs from GMRS, they'll just open them up for simplex use and further eliminate protection for Repeater owners.
 

K7MFC

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
553
Location
Phx, AZ
I don't think the FCC will remove the 467 MHz repeater inputs from GMRS, they'll just open them up for simplex use and further eliminate protection for Repeater owners.
What makes you say that?
 

VE3WTV

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
34
Location
Ontario, Canada
I find it hard to believe the professional people at IC would be so negligent as to remove 467 from public use and not give any notice of how those frequencies will be allocated as a result.

So you could be at a park enjoying some recreational activity with your consumer radios, and if you happen to use any of the old channels from 8 - 14, you will be told by some stranger to "Get off our channel!" and not know why, or where you're allowed to talk, unless you're one of us radio nuts.

And as for those who have a modified Yaesu programmed with the other 8 channels the store-bought radios don't have (23 - 30), who are you stepping on if you use them?
 

Cognomen

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
117
Looks like the only change is the removal of the repeater input freqs from the "reserved" list, which aren't used in Canada anyways, and never appeared in the bubble-pack radios. All 22 of the simplex FRS and GMRS freqs are still the same. Remember that the list of GMRS freqs shown above does not include the FRS freqs which aren't shared with GMRS.
 

PriorMike

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
205
Location
Arnprior, Ontario, Canada
I find it hard to believe the professional people at IC would be so negligent as to remove 467 from public use and not give any notice of how those frequencies will be allocated as a result.

So you could be at a park enjoying some recreational activity with your consumer radios, and if you happen to use any of the old channels from 8 - 14, you will be told by some stranger to "Get off our channel!" and not know why, or where you're allowed to talk, unless you're one of us radio nuts.

And as for those who have a modified Yaesu programmed with the other 8 channels the store-bought radios don't have (23 - 30), who are you stepping on if you use them?
Dude, go back to the webpage, look at Table 1 under paragraph 3.1. The 467 FRS frequencies are still there.
 

PriorMike

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
205
Location
Arnprior, Ontario, Canada
It can't be any more clear. The GMRS repeater input frequencies had been reserved for the possibility that IC would allow for repeater use on GMRS. That is not going to happen, so they have removed them from the FRS/GMRS in Canada.

The other 467 mhz channels(8 to 14) in FRS are still there, as stated in Table 1.
 

robertmac

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,186
And lets not forget that the FRS frequencies in Canada were once used by First Responders, licensed businesses until people using FRS radios [at the time illegal] that caused considerable interference to the licensed users. As a result the First Responders and licensed businesses had to change frequencies. Some licensed businesses were grandfathered into still being able to use these frequencies. In other words they were there long before GMRS/FRS arrived on the scene in Canada.
 
Top