Loss of 467 on GMRS

[VE3WTV]

Industry Canada recently removed the entire 467 band (including channels 8 - 14) from the FRS/GMRS allocation. GMRS now has a total of 15 channels, leaving, imo, FRS totally superfluous.

I have searched the IC website, and other internet sources, trying to find out how the 467 frequencies have been allocated, and I've found nothing. IC has a chart which combines all of 460-470 together for land/mobile, with no mention of 467.

Specifically, I want to know what has become of:

Former FRS/GMRS

8. 467.56
9. 467.5875
10. 467.6125
11. 467.6375
12. 467.6625
13. 467.69
14. 467.71

Unnumbered Frequencies
467.5500
467.5750
467.6000
467.6250
467.6500
467.6750
467.7000
467.7250

The last 8 frequencies listed were never part of FRS/GMRS, but were nevertheless included in the list as unnumbered channels in the database on this website. They seem to be just extra frequencies left for later, possible, use.

While older FRS/GMRS radios are capable of transmitting on channels 8 - 14, IC has now prohibited such use. Again, I cannot find info on how those frequencies are being allocated.

I have been unable to find any resource that lists the allocation of specific frequencies.

It seems that for those with capable radios, the last 8 frequencies are effectively 'private' channels, open to our use, since no consumer radio was ever programmed with them, although it is possible that they are being allocated to commercial interests, and one day I will hear such traffic if I'm listening on my travels.

I've scanned VHF and UHF extensively in Essex County, and aside from EMS in the 142 band, there is virtually no radio traffic in my area, and almost nothing on the FRS channels, possibly because many commercial interests have gone digital. I think you have to go to areas of marine and land recreational activities to hear anything at all.

 

[VE3WTV]

This appears at the bottom of an IC page referring to FRS/GMRS, but with no further comment on recent changes:

 

[N4KVE]

Aren’t those last 8 467 freq’s [unnumbered frequencies] the inputs for GMRS repeaters?

 

[chief21]

Aren’t those last 8 467 freq’s [unnumbered frequencies] the inputs for GMRS repeaters?

Yes (in the US), but the OP is in Canada. I don't know if Canada has a GMRS-type service in UHF, but it sounds as if IC might have different plans for those 467 MHz frequencies if they actually removed the interstitial channels from the FRS pool.

 

[chief21]

Upon further searching, I found the following IC document...

SP 462/467 MHz — Spectrum Utilization Policy to Permit Licence-Exempt Devices in the Land Mobile Frequency Sub-bands 462/467 MHz

ISED is publishing an updated version of Spectrum Utilization Policy (SP) 462/467 MHz, Spectrum Provisions for introducing Licence-Exempt radios in the land mobile frequency sub-bands 462/467 MHz, to consolidate existing policies with regards to the operation of Family Radio Service (FRS) and...

www.ic.gc.ca

Admittedly, I have have not read it thoroughly, but it appears to create a 14 channel FRS service (all 462 MHz) and a 15 channel GMRS service (all 462 MHz, with some channels being shared with FRS). All of the GMRS channels are simplex and there are no corresponding 467 repeater inputs.

 

[PriorMike]

Reading at the link, the only frequencies that are no longer available are the 467 repeater inputs, which were not being used for that anyway.

No suprise. I emailed Industry Canada about aligning our FRS/GMRS rules with the US, and the response was essentially, not going to happen, get a spectrum license if you want better than what FRS/GMRS offers.

 

[PriorMike]

Upon further searching, I found the following IC document...

SP 462/467 MHz — Spectrum Utilization Policy to Permit Licence-Exempt Devices in the Land Mobile Frequency Sub-bands 462/467 MHz

ISED is publishing an updated version of Spectrum Utilization Policy (SP) 462/467 MHz, Spectrum Provisions for introducing Licence-Exempt radios in the land mobile frequency sub-bands 462/467 MHz, to consolidate existing policies with regards to the operation of Family Radio Service (FRS) and...

www.ic.gc.ca

Admittedly, I have have not read it thoroughly, but it appears to create a 14 channel FRS service (all 462 MHz) and a 15 channel GMRS service (all 462 MHz, with some channels being shared with FRS). All of the GMRS channels are simplex and there are no corresponding 467 repeater inputs.

If you have a look at Table 1 under paragraph 3.1, it clearly shows 467 mhz frequencies in FRS.

 

[N4KVE]

So GMRS in Canada is only for simplex use, no repeaters?

 

[PriorMike]

So GMRS in Canada is only for simplex use, no repeaters?

Yes, and we're pretty much limited to bubble pack radios also.

 

[PriorMike]

Industry Canada recently removed the entire 467 band (including channels 8 - 14) from the FRS/GMRS allocation. GMRS now has a total of 15 channels, leaving, imo, FRS totally superfluous.

I have searched the IC website, and other internet sources, trying to find out how the 467 frequencies have been allocated, and I've found nothing. IC has a chart which combines all of 460-470 together for land/mobile, with no mention of 467.

Specifically, I want to know what has become of:

Former FRS/GMRS

8. 467.56
9. 467.5875
10. 467.6125
11. 467.6375
12. 467.6625
13. 467.69
14. 467.71

Unnumbered Frequencies
467.5500
467.5750
467.6000
467.6250
467.6500
467.6750
467.7000
467.7250

The last 8 frequencies listed were never part of FRS/GMRS, but were nevertheless included in the list as unnumbered channels in the database on this website. They seem to be just extra frequencies left for later, possible, use.

While older FRS/GMRS radios are capable of transmitting on channels 8 - 14, IC has now prohibited such use. Again, I cannot find info on how those frequencies are being allocated.

I have been unable to find any resource that lists the allocation of specific frequencies.

It seems that for those with capable radios, the last 8 frequencies are effectively 'private' channels, open to our use, since no consumer radio was ever programmed with them, although it is possible that they are being allocated to commercial interests, and one day I will hear such traffic if I'm listening on my travels.

I've scanned VHF and UHF extensively in Essex County, and aside from EMS in the 142 band, there is virtually no radio traffic in my area, and almost nothing on the FRS channels, possibly because many commercial interests have gone digital. I think you have to go to areas of marine and land recreational activities to hear anything at all.

The link posted above by chief21 is dated 2016 and shows 467 mhz frequencies under FRS. It clearly states that the 8 reserved "repeater inputs" are the ones being reallocated.

 

[chief21]

If you have a look at Table 1 under paragraph 3.1, it clearly shows 467 mhz frequencies in FRS.

I stand corrected. I clearly didn't pay enough attention to the second column of frequencies. Thanks.

 

[russbrill]

Aren’t those last 8 467 freq’s [unnumbered frequencies] the inputs for GMRS repeaters?

I think Canada is giving US GMRS users a preview of what's to come in the US.. I don't think the FCC will remove the 467 MHz repeater inputs from GMRS, they'll just open them up for simplex use and further eliminate protection for Repeater owners.

 

[K7MFC]

I don't think the FCC will remove the 467 MHz repeater inputs from GMRS, they'll just open them up for simplex use and further eliminate protection for Repeater owners.

What makes you say that?

 

[VE3WTV]

So this is the new FRS/GMRS for Canada, according to SP 462/467 MHz — Spectrum Utilization Policy to Permit Licence-Exempt Devices in the Land Mobile Frequency Sub-bands 462/467 MHz - Spectrum management and telecommunications:

 

[VE3WTV]

I find it hard to believe the professional people at IC would be so negligent as to remove 467 from public use and not give any notice of how those frequencies will be allocated as a result.

So you could be at a park enjoying some recreational activity with your consumer radios, and if you happen to use any of the old channels from 8 - 14, you will be told by some stranger to "Get off our channel!" and not know why, or where you're allowed to talk, unless you're one of us radio nuts.

And as for those who have a modified Yaesu programmed with the other 8 channels the store-bought radios don't have (23 - 30), who are you stepping on if you use them?

 

[Cognomen]

Looks like the only change is the removal of the repeater input freqs from the "reserved" list, which aren't used in Canada anyways, and never appeared in the bubble-pack radios. All 22 of the simplex FRS and GMRS freqs are still the same. Remember that the list of GMRS freqs shown above does not include the FRS freqs which aren't shared with GMRS.

 

[PriorMike]

I find it hard to believe the professional people at IC would be so negligent as to remove 467 from public use and not give any notice of how those frequencies will be allocated as a result.

So you could be at a park enjoying some recreational activity with your consumer radios, and if you happen to use any of the old channels from 8 - 14, you will be told by some stranger to "Get off our channel!" and not know why, or where you're allowed to talk, unless you're one of us radio nuts.

And as for those who have a modified Yaesu programmed with the other 8 channels the store-bought radios don't have (23 - 30), who are you stepping on if you use them?

Dude, go back to the webpage, look at Table 1 under paragraph 3.1. The 467 FRS frequencies are still there.

 

[VE3WTV]

What is meant by '467' here is not specified:

 

[PriorMike]

It can't be any more clear. The GMRS repeater input frequencies had been reserved for the possibility that IC would allow for repeater use on GMRS. That is not going to happen, so they have removed them from the FRS/GMRS in Canada.

The other 467 mhz channels(8 to 14) in FRS are still there, as stated in Table 1.

 

[robertmac]

And lets not forget that the FRS frequencies in Canada were once used by First Responders, licensed businesses until people using FRS radios [at the time illegal] that caused considerable interference to the licensed users. As a result the First Responders and licensed businesses had to change frequencies. Some licensed businesses were grandfathered into still being able to use these frequencies. In other words they were there long before GMRS/FRS arrived on the scene in Canada.