• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

LTR busy handoffs when not all ch's working

Status
Not open for further replies.

phbrush

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Maine
When an standard LTR system home channel is busy, it broadcasts available talk channels to other mobiles not in its talk group. Now is this a channel number assignment a-la EDACS or Smartnet(binary RF freq), or is it just a channel 'offer' ? In the case where the mobile is programmed with channels that are out of service, or where the site has channels not yet added to the mobiles channel list, do bad things happen ? I would like to believe that the mobile will only try a channel # that is offered to it by the site that it also has programmed into its repeater list. This would certainly make things easier. I realize that normally a dead home channel is a deal breaker.

-Pete
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,464
Location
Sitting in an airport somewhere
When the home channel is in use and another group wishes to use it it decodes the trunk out information and jumps to the first channel in the list. If it is in use it continues the same until it finds an available channel. The channel assignment is a LCN just as used in the group ID.

From my experience, some in-use channels will announce all other channels available in the system and some will be selective. The ones I've seen which are selective are typically a mess of a built system. A cookie-cutter system should announce all of them.
 

ramal121

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
1,637
Location
Sonoma, CA
In the case where the mobile is programmed with channels that are out of service, or where the site has channels not yet added to the mobiles channel list, do bad things happen ?
The mobile can be programmed with more repeaters than are actually active. The system will only advertise trunk-to channels that it knows are valid. Now if a valid channel has a problem, say the transmit PA dives, A mobile will attempt to connect and fail with a out of range tone. If a valid repeater is not programmed into the mobile list, it will not know what to do if instructed to trunk there, will not transmit and just give a "Busy" indication.
 

phbrush

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Maine
LTR Channel Handoffs -

OK, that makes sense. That only leaves a minor point - does the mobile pick from the list of the trunk-to channels or does the repeater assign a specific channel to a specific mobile trying to acquire a talk channel ? In the first case there is no problem since the mobile knows what channels are programmed into it, where in the latter case the mobile 'crashes' because it may not have that specific channel programmed into it.

Tnx -


The mobile can be programmed with more repeaters than are actually active. The system will only advertise trunk-to channels that it knows are valid. Now if a valid channel has a problem, say the transmit PA dives, A mobile will attempt to connect and fail with a out of range tone. If a valid repeater is not programmed into the mobile list, it will not know what to do if instructed to trunk there, will not transmit and just give a "Busy" indication.
 

ramal121

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
1,637
Location
Sonoma, CA
The system controls what trunk-to channel to assign for a home channel in use. It will broadcast the LCN it wants the mobile to trunk to either for TX or RX (for TX the system broadcasts the LCN and "free channel", for RX the system broadcasts the LCN and your fleet ID which means get moving or you're going to miss something). The mobile checks its list and changes repeaters. If the repeater list in the mobile is not correct for the system there will be problems.

Things to consider. You may not want all the repeaters in a system to be a trunk-to channel. You do not want to trunk to another home channel (messy) unless all the other channels are busy.Only the system knows what channels are busy and takes care of it. If there is a telephone interconnect you may want to reserve a channel just for that (interconnect works different than dispatch calls). Or how about a high priority user? Put one or two high priority talkgroups on one home channel and give them access to all trunk-to channels. Take the low priority peons, put them on another home channel and only give them access to a limited number of channels to trunk-to. Tricky huh?
 
Last edited:

phbrush

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Maine
Yes, I was afraid of a scenario like that. So, it is going to be up to the site to make most of the 'big' decisions - I can see where some prudent mobile programming is important, and for the tricky stuff it will be up to the site controller software to handle, assuming the controllers have the capability.
 

slicerwizard

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
5,539
Location
Toronto, Ontario
does the mobile pick from the list of the trunk-to channels or does the repeater assign a specific channel to a specific mobile trying to acquire a talk channel ?
You are assuming levels of complexity where none exist. An LTR radio just transmits its PTT request on the last LCN that the system said was available. So if the radio's home channel is in use, the LCN that gets the call is essentially random (unless the system operator was stupid and used contiguous LCNs - then most calls will trunk off to the last LCN)


In the first case there is no problem since the mobile knows what channels are programmed into it, where in the latter case the mobile 'crashes' because it may not have that specific channel programmed into it.
If the radio has an incomplete LCN table, it's going to have problems. It can't just remember a free LCN from a while ago, while ignoring the ones it can't resolve.

Ah, the joys of standard LTR - channel expansion is a ***** (radios need reprogramming); doubling (talkover) is a constant companion; no radio IDs, so thieving customers add cloned radios to their fleet - who cares if the lost airtime charges drive the system operator out of business?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top