Ma/com And New York State

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brey1234

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A year after the state signed the nation's biggest public safety communications contract ever for a statewide wireless network, the contractor is nine months from demonstrating whether it will work.

Glen "Skip" Funk, senior program director for M/A-COM, which signed a deal that could pay it $2 billion if the statewide system is built, said two counties where startup is planned -- Erie and Chautauqua -- are nearing readiness.
http://tinyurl.com/y3cw2e
 

Chev_am

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I admire and hate the man at the same time. It makes me sad that we won't be able to monitor radio communications one by one they will disapear. I mean, There's going to be illegal Underground Scanners able to capture these signals. But legal scanning as we know it will be abolished. Which is my view of it, It's too bad because I was really geting into the Radio scene and now by 2010 I won't be able to monitor my own counties radio systems :(
 

kevin390

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Chev_am said:
I admire and hate the man at the same time. It makes me sad that we won't be able to monitor radio communications one by one they will disapear. I mean, There's going to be illegal Underground Scanners able to capture these signals. But legal scanning as we know it will be abolished. Which is my view of it, It's too bad because I was really geting into the Radio scene and now by 2010 I won't be able to monitor my own counties radio systems :(

Thats one reason I been hesitant to buy a high end scanner. They say X amount of years before its ready, but as with anything that has to do with the government you never know.Luckily where I live I can listen to all public safety with just about any trunk-tracker. Besides the group of scanners I have seem to do the job just fine. I guess living out in the sticks has some advantages...........Ray
 

davidd2957

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Chev_am said:
I admire and hate the man at the same time. It makes me sad that we won't be able to monitor radio communications one by one they will disapear. I mean, There's going to be illegal Underground Scanners able to capture these signals. But legal scanning as we know it will be abolished. Which is my view of it, It's too bad because I was really geting into the Radio scene and now by 2010 I won't be able to monitor my own counties radio systems :(
Hey Chev_ am...I guess I must have missed something. Why won't we" be able to monitor radio communications"?
David D.
 

kevin390

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Because of the Open Sky radio system that New York State has contracted to set up. From what I understand no scanner can monitor this system. Look at West Point. I use to listen to them and then they switched over to some new trunking set up, I forget the name right off hand. But anyway there isn't a scanner that can pick them up. It seems like they come out with a new scanner and then a new radio system follows a few years later. I might be streaching it a bit, but thats what it seem like to me ....Ray
 

davidd2957

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kevin390 said:
Because of the Open Sky radio system that New York State has contracted to set up. From what I understand no scanner can monitor this system. Look at West Point. I use to listen to them and then they switched over to some new trunking set up, I forget the name right off hand. But anyway there isn't a scanner that can pick them up.
I have read all about the Open Sky radio system, but did not read that the system was un-monitorable. As far as West Point is concerned, there must be a reason why you are not able to monitor the system. Don't you want to know why you can't ?
David D.
 

kevin390

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I do know why and I did make a mistake. It's a M/A Digital system. Uniden digital scanner can't pick them up but GRE ones can. As much as I liked to listen to West Point I can't see paying around $500.00 to do it. My Trunking listening area is 90% EDACS and 10% LTR not counting West Point......Ray
 
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N_Jay

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kevin390 said:
. . . It seems like they come out with a new scanner and then a new radio system follows a few years later. I might be streaching it a bit, but thats what it seem like to me ....Ray
I think the opposite is true.

They come out with a new radio system and IF there is a market and IF there are not too many technical issues, and IF there are no legal roadblocks, then they come out with a scanner.

EDIT;

To clear up any confusion.

There are scanners for EDACS (M/A-COM FDMA Trunking)
There are no scanners for ProVoice (M/A-COM Digital Voice ues on Trunking and conventional)
There are no scanners for OpenSky (M/A-COM TDMA Digital Trunking)
 
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Chev_am

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Chev_am said:
I admire and hate the man at the same time. It makes me sad that we won't be able to monitor radio communications one by one they will disapear. I mean, There's going to be illegal Underground Scanners able to capture these signals. But legal scanning as we know it will be abolished. Which is my view of it, It's too bad because I was really geting into the Radio scene and now by 2010 I won't be able to monitor my own counties radio systems :(

I ment to say "According to scanners and technology that is out today, it will not be monitorable." Of course it's possible to monitor it with a high-end underground scanner If they keep it illegal to scan it.
 

newsnick175

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Its my understanding that in the MA-COM / NYS agreement, MA-Com will have to make is technology available to other manufactures so as to allow for competive bidding for hardwear. That might open the door for Uniden and others to legally build compatable scanners. Also, isn't Penn also getting Open-Sky? And haven't they been driven crazy with cost over runs and poor proformance. Don't expect Open-Sky to over run NYS any time soon. And unless the state is going to give away radios to every FD and PD, don't expect to see thoes depts to shell out big bucks when they already have radio systems of their own. Which brings up the question of how often any one needs to use a state wide system anyway?
 
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guiltyplea

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Going to Mass.

Any suggestions as to what freqs to listen too while going across NY (Michigan to Massachussetts) from Lewiston to Mass state line on the NY Thruway? I'll be using a PRO-96
 

ff026

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"Look at West Point. I use to listen to them and then they switched over to some new trunking set up, I forget the name right off hand."

west point is on a P25 M/A COM trunking system COMPLETLY monitorable with a digital scanner.
 

SCANdal

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This should have been a seperate thread

guiltyplea said:
Any suggestions as to what freqs to listen too while going across NY (Michigan to Massachussetts) from Lewiston to Mass state line on the NY Thruway?
guilty,

The Thruway Authority operates on the following frequencies:

453.425R (123.0) Channel A
453.525R (123.0) Channel B

453.425R (97.4) Channel A
453.525R (97.4) Channel B

458.525S (97.4) Channel 5

Click on http://www.nysthruway.gov/maps/index.html The first pair (with PL 123.0) is used in Division 4 "Buffalo" (the three western most boxes on the map. The second pair (with PL 97.4) is used in Division 3 "Syracuse" (the box with Syracuse in it and the one to its right). The first pair is used again in Division 2 "Albany" (the box with Albany in it). The second pair comes back in service again in Division 1/5 (the two most southern boxes).

Just as the frequency pairs alternate each other from Division to Division, within each division the repeaters leapfrog each other along the Thruway (Channel A, then B, then A again, then B again, etc., etc.). Therefore keep both channels unlocked in your scanner has you move from west to east so that has you move out of the range of one channel you don't have to fumble to unlock the next channel has you travel into its range.

Channel 5 is used for unit-to-unit traffic.

The New York State Police has a contract with the Thruway Authority to patrol the Thruway. They use 154.665 (110.9) for their unit-to-unit traffic and 155.565 is used as an alternate unit-to-unit channel.

You'll be moving so quickly through counties and cities on the Thruway that I won't even try to list local channels.

SCANdal
 
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kevin390

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newsnick175 said:
Its my understanding that in the MA-COM / NYS agreement, MA-Com will have to make is technology available to other manufactures so as to allow for competive bidding for hardwear. That might open the door for Uniden and others to legally build compatable scanners. Also, isn't Penn also getting Open-Sky? And haven't they been driven crazy with cost over runs and poor proformance. Don't expect Open-Sky to over run NYS any time soon. And unless the state is going to give away radios to every FD and PD, don't expect to see thoes depts to shell out big bucks when they already have radio systems of their own. Which brings up the question of how often any one needs to use a state wide system anyway?

Thats what amazed me the most with New York going with the same set-up as Pennsylvania. I think the company name that has the contract is Tyco. Here they took PA for millions over budget, nothing worked right and to the best of my knowledge they are still having all kinds of problems. We read about all the problems they are having so what does New York do? They buy the same set-up from the same contractor. If your neighbor has a new roof put on his house and it leaks and he pays way to much, are you going to hire the roofer as his next customer? I thought Tyco made toys, apparently awfully expensive ones. I am not one of those scanning people that know all the in's and out's of the radio world like allot of you do. I just like to hear whats going on around my neck of the woods. But with this OpenSki set up some politician made a dumb choice or got a big campaign contribution. Ok now I am ready for the negitive feed-back. This is just my 2-cents. Thanks for your time.......Ray
 
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DaveNF2G

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Pennsylvania is acting as their own subcontractor to build the system.

New York has hired General Dynamics. The folks at OFT tell me that this will make a huge difference in the results.

We'll see...
 

kc2kvz

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Something to remember about the Closed....er Open Sky system NY is putting together is that it is supposed to act as a link between systems, as well as it's own radio system. To try and clear that statement up, one function of the State's system is supposed to be able to connect two or more systems together so that they can talk to each other. So, if the local departments are still staying with a monitorable radio system, you will still be able to monitor it, and, whatever might be linked to it, just not on the Open Sky frequencies. Many localities have just recently updated systems and likely will not change over to the digital system. So, all may not be lost. My best guess, as an informed listener, is that it may be quite a few years before the system is fully built.
 

PJH

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Since this is getting all rehased from previous threads (thought its been awhile since we have had an OpenSky thread)...

MA/COM's OpenSky is currently unmonitorable, and may remain that way. OpenSky is not based on an open standard, such as APCO's -25 standard. MA/COM holds all the keys.

The current battleplan is to allow the NY system to be patched into local systems that will allows access. Where that is not available, radios will be patched into available regional/national mutual aid channels to allow for local interaction (such as ICALL, NLEEF, etc). When this happens, you will be able to hear both sides of the conversations, most likely in the analog mode. At the switch, recoverd digtal audio will be passed along as analog, and vice versa.

As stated above, PA acted as the go between for everything, effectively screwing up everything. It is in service, although not loaded as high as they have hoped. Most SP units are not on yet as well as other state agenices. DOT is the primary voice user and PSP as the primary data user.

I don't recall NY requirnig MA/COM to open up their books for other manufactures to produce products. I would highly doubt MA/COM would have agreed to that, but anything is possible for a 2+ billion dollar contract. The APCO25 stanard sets that as a basis (open source), but OpenSky is not P25 so it doesn't apply. Either way, MA/COM and Motorola where the only two bidders, and MA/COM one. Why would they open up their proprietary works to another manufacture to bid on a contract that they already won?
 

gralston73

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PJH said:
Why would they open up their proprietary works to another manufacture to bid on a contract that they already won?

The requirement is not for the contract for the OpenSky network, it is so that New York State is not stuck buying radios solely from M/A COM in the future...
 

PJH

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Personally, I have not came across that requirement in all the documentation that has come across my desk. I may have missed it. Do you know which section and chapter this is listed at?

As a FYI (and typical NYS contracts), they should have thought about this before buying into a propriatary system.
 
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