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MA-Com P25 with ProVoice?

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mitaux8030

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Do I detect an impending train wreck? I've been told our local network is to be upgraded, apparently, to a P25 trunked standard with ProVoice, all using MA-Com equipment.

Eh? I thought P25 trunking used the standard CAI - not have a proprietary standard like ProVoice for the working channels?

Has anyone heard of this sort of network architecture before, anywhere in the world?
 

JungleJim

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Macom does have the capability to do it. It will use the P25 trunking control but within the voice channel the digital audio will be coded as Provoice. The option exists to also have P25 coded audio and possibly even analog channels for interoperability. The P25 standard is not a strict biblical mandate but rather a guideline within which there is leeway for individual manufacturers to put in their own interpretation and add extra features or options.

Many system administrators and users like the idea of Provoice's inherent security due to it's proprietary nature. Some have even concluded that it sounds better or more clear that P25 digital audio.

I'm not preaching the superiority of Macom or Provoice or giving my own opinion. Just the facts ma'am.

By the way, if you want you can also buy the reverse from Macom. P25 digital audio over an EDACS network.

CAI stands for Conventional Air Interface which is only one of a multitude of standards comprising P25. It encompasses not only the coded voice but the signaling criteria. As it is Conventional it not specifically applicable to trunking.
 
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ElroyJetson

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DO NOT ASK ME FOR HELP PROGRAMMING YOUR RADIO. NO.
Such a system would not be billed as being fully P25 compliant. In fact it would be a proprietary system using some open standard technologies.

Personally, if I ran the zoo, all P25 participating vendors would have two choices: Offer fully compliant
P25 solutions that can be supported by other P25 vendors, or offer their own proprietary solutions that
use NO P25 technologies. No mixing of P25 technologies into proprietary system configurations.

The way I see it, systems like that are a direct insult to the entire IDEA of P25 interoperability, and
should not be permitted. Interoperability is impossible when the system ends up being dependent on
proprietary, single vendor technologies.

But that's just my opinion.


Elroy
 

MASTRTECH

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In all my years of working for M/A-COM, I have never heard of that. M/A-COM P25 is just that. P25. Provoice is just that. Provoice. The only thing in common is they both are IMBE vocorders.
 
D

DaveNF2G

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You also have to consider the source of the information, which in this case is unknown. The OP said, "I've been told..." It is likely that whoever was doing the telling did not understand what they were talking about.
 

mitaux8030

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I thought it was horribly strange too, especially given the context in which the local network has evolved over the last decade - it has drawn lots of fire from one particular user as being 'unreliable' (nearly 100 site EDACS). This proposal is supposed to be the 'reliable' upgrade solution.
Some of the figures supplied (x number of M7100 mobiles, x number of P5400 portables) make the related info about the upgrade tie in technically... but given the unusual nature of the proposed network configuration, and given the criticism of the 'old' network, I would have thought they'd have gone to a more standard, tried-and-tested configuration.

Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
 

JungleJim

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In all my years of working for M/A-COM, I have never heard of that. M/A-COM P25 is just that. P25. Provoice is just that. Provoice. The only thing in common is they both are IMBE vocorders.
I don't know why you haven't heard. But I learned of it in a Macom training course.
 

tglendye

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I could be wrong, but I think Harrisonburg/ Rockingham Co. is going to this type of system. I have lots of questions about it.
 

ElroyJetson

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DO NOT ASK ME FOR HELP PROGRAMMING YOUR RADIO. NO.
Provoice is an IMBE (or AMBE) codec-based method.

So is P25.

The only rational reason for saying P25 ProVoice is to try to make the system sound like it's proprietary,
which would be odd. And if there IS a version of P25 that uses ProVoice and is proprietary, then by
definition it's not a P25 solution and should not be advertised or described as P25 in any way,
as it is not compliant with the Project 25 specifications for interoperability.


Elroy
 

Cowthief

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Pro-Voice P25 hybrid.

Hello.

In San Antonio, hybrid P25 with Pro-Voice is undergoing testing.
From the interop' standpoint it works, a "regular" P25 radio can access the system like any other P25 .
But, the Pro-Voice provides the encryption.
So, a roaming radio would work, 100% interoperable, with the option of excluding the roaming radio, as well as scanners, from the system.
The 700 MHz expansion is expected to be this hybrid.
And, again, excluding a P25 radio is an option, the P25 radio can be allowed into the net by having the other radios drop into full P25 mode or by a bridge.
But, whatever the case, San Antonio is not expected to drop M/A-Com at any time, Pro-Voice has been proven to be scanner proof, something that Motorola had promised with its Smartnet system but never delivered.
 

LID109

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P25 systems from M/A-COM only allow three types of opperating modes. Unencrytped P25. DES P25 and AES P25.
 

Cowthief

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Pro-Voice.

Hello.

Yes, a M/A-Com P25 system only has 3 modes, this is not a P25 system, this is a Pro-Voice system.
In order to get federal funding the city and county will be doing P25 on the new 700 MHz system.
And, to preserve all of the features of the current system they will retain Pro-Voice.
The solution is a radio that is first and foremost a Pro-Voice radio at 800 MHz.
This radio can also do P25 as well as 700 MHz.
But, the option to use the Pro-Voice vocoder will be retained, even on the P25 system.
So, the 700 MHz system is 100% P25 compliant.
The radios CAN be P25 compliant, but there are no plans to do any sort of switchover.
San Antonio is happy with M/A-Com and Pro-Voice.
 
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