Main differences between XTS 2500 & 5000

[kikito]

Just wondering, since this is the main offerings for our state system for Motorola portables.

This is what I can tell so far:

XTS 2500:

ADP Software Encryption available
4MB memory
255 channels (Model III)
Slightly lighter & smaller
700, 800 & VHF/UHF
12.5/20/30kHz frequency steps
Cheaper?

XTS 5000:

Encryption capable
8MB memory
512 channels
Slightly heavier and bigger
700, 800 and VHF
12.5/25kHz steps
Rugged version available
More expensive?


Can anybody think of any other differences, pros & cons, etc.

EDITED: for corrections

 

[Colin9690]

The 2500 CAN do VHF. See here for the differences.

[Mod edit: please remember to text link your long URLs]

 

[mm]

The XTS2500 is available in either a 9600 bps digital trunking only radio or a 3600 baud digital or analog trunking radio with conventional digital operation only. The key word in the 2500 is OR.

Basically what it comes down to is that you have to choose what flavor you want with the XTS2500 unlike the XTS5000 which can be flashed for everything to make it backwards compatible with analog systems and P25 digital systems.

In the XTS2500 you can have either ASTRO 25, 9600 bps CC digital trunking OR you can have astro 3600 baud digital/analog trunking with digital conventional operation (no analog conventional operation) but you can't have it in both 9600 baud and 3600 baud versions.

The XTS5000 can be flashed for all of the above in one radio to make it APCO16 backwards compatible and APCO25 compatible.

Both the 2500 and 5000 are available in VHF, UHF-range1 (384 to 470) UHF range 2 (450-520MHZ) or 700/800 MHZ models.

Also the XTS5000 is available in the Government FPP version where the transmit and receive frequency, PL, DPL, astro NAC codes, Mode (analog or digital), bandwidth (12.5 or 25 Khz) and alpha numeric channel label can be edited from the keypad without the use of CPS programming software.


Mike

 

[kikito]

Thank you guys for the responses so far.

Geez, the Alaska DMVA/ALMR website has some outdated brochures for the potential subscribers to look at (that's where I got the specs on my original message, should've known better). I just looked at the last page of the PDF files and found dates of 2001. Hopefully most of the users don't care, don't understand or won't read that deep into the specs mentioned there! :wink:

Thanks again.

 

[N4DES]

In the XTS2500 you can have either ASTRO 25, 9600 bps CC digital trunking OR you can have astro 3600 baud digital/analog trunking with digital conventional operation (no analog conventional operation) but you can't have it in both 9600 baud and 3600 baud versions.
Mike

That's funny...my XTS2500 does 3600 baud digital/analog trunking, analog conventional, and digital conventional.

I don't seem to have the limitation that you stated which stated "digital conventional operation (no analog conventional operation)", or am I reading your post incorrectly?

 

[im800mhz]

The big biatch that we have with the XTS2500 (from MTS-2000's) is the loss of the ABC switch. They put it where the 2 position concentric used to be. We use the ABC switch for about 8500 of the MTS portables to switch zones, and the old 2 position switch for scan. Now you have to take the radio out of a holster to turn off the scan. We're stepping up to the 5000.

 

[mm]

I think the no analog conventional had to be either a typo in the early moto literature. Moto online still lists no analog conventional in the 2500 brochure. It was either that way in early releases or a typo that they need to fix.

 

[TommyP]

The 2500 is now available to do both 3600 & 9600 in the same radio. Needs to be ordered with Q883 ENH:3600/9600 Interoperability on top of Q574 ENH:Software Trunking 9600 Baud.

Also,

Will be shipping with 512 channels/modes hopefully by August.

 

[N4DES]

The 2500 is now available to do both 3600 & 9600 in the same radio. Needs to be ordered with Q883 ENH:3600/9600 Interoperability on top of Q574 ENH:Software Trunking 9600 Baud.

Also,

Will be shipping with 512 channels/modes hopefully by August.

and the xts5000 will be able to do over 800 channels/modes in the same time frame. Boy I can't wait for the upgrade flash and CPS to show up.

 

[xplorer417]

xts portables

hi i know this is some what off of topic of the xts radios but i saw a radio over the weekend at a show the pr1500 that replace the ht1000 they moved the A B C switch to on top of the volume knob

 

[buckyswider]

I'm in the same boat as the original poster: I must decide between the 2500 and 5000 for our county's switch to Motorola Smartzone II/APCO 25 system this fall.

Some questions I get conflicting answers for, which in the end IS a question about the hardware:

Our system is Montgomery County PA.. We have two different 'zones', East and West, East with 10 frequencies, and West with 8 frequencies. There are talkgrous divided by 'east' and 'west' but also 'countywide' talkgroups. Can I make the assumption that the 'countywide' talkgroups get broadcast on a separate frequency pair in both the east and west frequency zones? <btw, the context of 'zones' appears to not match the way 'zone' is used in the XTS manuals, but I digress>.

We also have fireground channels with have been advertised as 'line of sight' and have no talkgroups assigned. I have to assume that these are conventional frequencies on different frequencies than the 18 aforementioned, don't I? Or do I not?

Anyhow, the end-all question is about scanning both the 'east' zone along with the conventional fireground frequency at the same time, i.e. talking on fireground, but being able to hear if dispatch is hailing. Somebody asked if we could do both with the XTS2500, and the answer was 'no'. If this info is correct, would the answer be the same with the XTS5000?

The reason I ask that is because the instructions given to us to program as scan list on the XTS2500 says this: "A maximum of 10 'channels' can be scanned radio wide". The instruction sheet for the XTS5000 says 15 channels.

So, in my attempt to piece this all together, I'm wondering if in that blurb 10 'channels' means ten frequencies- so if I'm scanning anything on the east zone, made up of ten frequencies, that immediately puts me at my 'channel' limit and no other frequencies (i.e. the conventional fireground frequency) or talkgroups in different zones could be added. So, if by some miracle my assumption is right, the XTS5000, with its 15 channel limit, could add up to five more frequencies/channels in its scanlinst along with the 10 already taken up by the east trunking zone.

Does this make sense? Is my expanation understandable? Any comments would be appreciated- there's about a 15K delta between the models in the radio purchase, and I want to make sure I get it right. Thanks.

 

[N4DES]

I'm in the same boat as the original poster: I must decide between the 2500 and 5000 for our county's switch to Motorola Smartzone II/APCO 25 system this fall.

Some questions I get conflicting answers for, which in the end IS a question about the hardware:

Our system is Montgomery County PA.. We have two different 'zones', East and West, East with 10 frequencies, and West with 8 frequencies. There are talkgrous divided by 'east' and 'west' but also 'countywide' talkgroups. Can I make the assumption that the 'countywide' talkgroups get broadcast on a separate frequency pair in both the east and west frequency zones? <btw, the context of 'zones' appears to not match the way 'zone' is used in the XTS manuals, but I digress>.

We also have fireground channels with have been advertised as 'line of sight' and have no talkgroups assigned. I have to assume that these are conventional frequencies on different frequencies than the 18 aforementioned, don't I? Or do I not?

Anyhow, the end-all question is about scanning both the 'east' zone along with the conventional fireground frequency at the same time, i.e. talking on fireground, but being able to hear if dispatch is hailing. Somebody asked if we could do both with the XTS2500, and the answer was 'no'. If this info is correct, would the answer be the same with the XTS5000?

The reason I ask that is because the instructions given to us to program as scan list on the XTS2500 says this: "A maximum of 10 'channels' can be scanned radio wide". The instruction sheet for the XTS5000 says 15 channels.

So, in my attempt to piece this all together, I'm wondering if in that blurb 10 'channels' means ten frequencies- so if I'm scanning anything on the east zone, made up of ten frequencies, that immediately puts me at my 'channel' limit and no other frequencies (i.e. the conventional fireground frequency) or talkgroups in different zones could be added. So, if by some miracle my assumption is right, the XTS5000, with its 15 channel limit, could add up to five more frequencies/channels in its scanlinst along with the 10 already taken up by the east trunking zone.

Does this make sense? Is my expanation understandable? Any comments would be appreciated- there's about a 15K delta between the models in the radio purchase, and I want to make sure I get it right. Thanks.

The scanning capabilites for the 2500 would be the same as the 5000 which is 10 talk-groups in trunking and 15 conventional channels. This is an APCO 16 requirement and has not changed since its inception.

As to programming trunking and conventional at the same time, yes it is true that the radios can't do both. You are asking a lot for a radio that needs to monitor a data control channel consistently to go off to also listen to a "local scene frequency". Remember you are purchasing a radio and not a scanner. The scan features are not its primary function.

As to monitoring the talk-groups, this would depend on who is affiliated and which zone the talk-groups are allowed to access. This wouldn't be a mechanism of the radio, but the System Admin. The xts2500 and 5000 are pretty equal in perfomance, you wouldn't go wrong in selecting one or the other.

This website gives some good information on Motorola SmartZone:

http://www.freqofnature.com/SmartZone101.html

 

[buckyswider]

Hi Mark, thanks for your informed and concise reply. Rest assured that any complaining I do is not 'shooting the messenger' but rather just ranting on our system design...

One (or so) more question: do you know if the mobiles that were spec'ced (XTL5000) also have the characteristic- not able to scan trunked and conventional simultaneously? Also, what happens to the scan list when I switch my radio to a conventional channel- does it automatically switch to an alternate scan list, or does it just turn scan off, and I'd have to go into the menu to select a different scanlist? How about if I select a <trunked> channel that is not in the scan list? Thanks for answering all the newbie questions.....the operator guide is not very informative, and I need to pay to get access to the advanced guides, and the county isn't quick on their responses...

<rant>
Now my rant <feel free to ignore>: It's apparent that our system is now set up to band-aid the problems of early implementers- not able to hit a tower from within buildings and down in basements. So they move the local channels to conventional. Now, if we switch to local, we can't hear if the someone on a trunk is calling--now we must choose if we want to hear county or our team, unless we carry two radios. You'd think that if we're forced to to increase our radio cost by 1000%, we'd at least maintain the functionality we depend upon. Sure, we can use and apparatus operator as our 'relay', but that is cumbersome, and may distract the operator from his main funtions. I'm going to push for the radio room to have the ability to simulcast the trunked hailing frequency onto the local fireground channels- that way if they're calling someone on the trunked hailing channel, they could at least be heard on the fireground channel, and switch their radio back to reply. </rant>.

 

[N4DES]

The scan list is driven in the Personality that holds the talk-groups. If the selected tg isn't in the personality field that you want to scan it won't scan the tg's you may want to listen to.

If you can get to the person who is programming the radio maybe you can see how the scan feature works or have him explain to you which talk-groups are in the same personality. If it's a typical motorola programmer the personality is driven by the failsoft frequency. This makes the codeplug development easier but doesn't do a lot for creating a decent scan list.

As to your mobile question, it would be a safe bet that it will be the same. The XTL5000 uses the same software n such and there shouldn't be a reason why it would deviate to do anything different.

 

[buckyswider]

A follow-up...I now have in hand an XTL2500. It can scan both conventional and trunked in at least one configuration (tuned to a conventional channel, with a trunked talkgroup channel in the scan list). This feature (probably a new feature) is called "Talk Group Scan". As soon as I get near another radio, I'll test the other way around (tuned to a trunked talkgroup channel with a conventional channel in the scanlist). There's very little traffic on the conventional channels as of yet, so I need another radio to create some traffic. The one drawback with "Talk Group Scan" is the lack of priority. But still better than nothing. The county is still recommending the OIC carry two radios, one tuned to conventiona/fireground ops, and the other tuned to trunked/dispatch. The county must have Motorola Stock! :lol:

EDIT: Don't need to test. I can't add a conventional channel to the scanlist of a trunked channel...so it works one way, but not the other....

 

[buckyswider]

Nex question!

Hi, me again. Another XTS5000 v. XTS2500 issue:

The XTS5000 currently has available the IMPRES (Intelligent Motorola Portable Radio Energy System) batteries (usually called "SMART" batteries). The XTS2500 mentions that this is a 'future' option for this unit. Does anybody have any idea when this will be available for the XTS2500? Right now, that is the deciding factor between the two models... and the 2500 is quite a bit less expensive, so I'd prefer that, knowing that IMPRES is coming...

For those wondering, a "SMART" battery contains a microchip that communicates with a SMART charger to eliminate the "memory effect" common in NiCD and NiMH batteries- so in use you can leave it always in the charger, and can expect a full charge, without vastly shortening the battery life as with a standard battery. Or at least that's what Motorola says!

 

[N4DES]

I would rather use the high capacity battery with a pulse type charger (Advance Tech) and have a spare with me. The high capacity on the 2500 is only 1800 maH and a far cry from the 5000/3000 high cap battery which is around 3000 maH. You can keep a battery in the Advance Tech without the worry of damaging it, or so they say.

I don't know, I just prefer the extra calls instead of fancy electronics in the battery taking up valuable space, but that is my preference

 

[buckyswider]

Thanks again for the reply. I'd never heard of the "Advance Tech" pulse type chargers. Good to know, but a moot point in my case, since I have to buy off of the county bid sheet. Hopefully, the 1800 Impres batteries (with their '8 hour' rating) should be way more than enough for us. Any incident longer than that should have county resources on-site with spares.

And to answer my own question, in case anyone else is interested, Impres for the XTS2500 is scheduled for 1Q 2006. So I ordered the 2500s (At a savings of about $11K from the 5000s!) and next year we'll spend the money for the Impres upgrades once they're released.

Thanks all!

 

[N4DES]

Moto sells the Advance Tech line as an option also. Its a WPPN4002BR (Universal Base) and WPPN4098AR (2500 Plate).

You will like the 2500. We have over 200 in the fleet only one repair to date which was a display issue when it was dropped into the corner of an HVAC unit and not a mnfg. defect. Enjoy!

 

[jvanooteghem]

Ok then....

So let me get this straight. If I order an XTS 2500 with 9600 trunking I cant do conventional or digital conventional?