Making our own standalone firmware update
- Thread starter gary123
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sfb88
Member
Well first we get all the RR members to pool their money together and buy Uniden ... 😊
LOL I see the humorous side of this and yes its going to be a interesting rollercoaster ride.
All joking aside this is intended to be a serious attempt to make a updated firmware file for the x35 and SDR scanners. We (there is a group of us) are all Uniden enthusiasts. We all have access to local systems running just about all trunking formats. We are all knowledgeable on software and hardware so there is not a huge learning curve.
We really would like to hear directly from Uniden as it is hoped that Uniden will jump on board and assist. After all this is about making their product better and more enjoyable. Either way we are ready to move forward and get started.
We will wait a few days so anyone interested can have their say positive/negative or constructive. I have been elected to be the spokesperson on this project so ask your questions and I will attempt to answer them.
All joking aside this is intended to be a serious attempt to make a updated firmware file for the x35 and SDR scanners. We (there is a group of us) are all Uniden enthusiasts. We all have access to local systems running just about all trunking formats. We are all knowledgeable on software and hardware so there is not a huge learning curve.
We really would like to hear directly from Uniden as it is hoped that Uniden will jump on board and assist. After all this is about making their product better and more enjoyable. Either way we are ready to move forward and get started.
We will wait a few days so anyone interested can have their say positive/negative or constructive. I have been elected to be the spokesperson on this project so ask your questions and I will attempt to answer them.
MStep
Member
Quasi-Lawyer # 1 Stepping Up To The Plate:
Since the x36 and SDS lines are current, and following that there are many units out there less than one year old and still under warranty, I would imagine those folks would hesitate for reluctance of voiding their warranties. The Uniden manual for the SDS200 states that the warranty is invalid if (paraphrasing here) used in any configurations not sold by Uniden; programmed by anyone other than as detailed by the Operating Guide.....", and so forth. I would imagine that similar clauses appear in Uniden warranty statements for other units are well.
Even for units not under warranty, Uniden would likely refuse to make repairs on units that fall into the above criteria, even for hardware issues unrelated to the extraneous firmware.
There might be several brave souls out there with enough technical knowledge and equipment to repair their own radios. I think for the bulk of us, we have to count on Uniden for doing any warranty or non-warranty repairs, since they are the likely source of any hardware parts that might be required.
As far as Uniden jumping on board, well that's a whole different arena. My guess, based on past performance, is not to hold one's breath. With the usual YMMV and FWIW connotations included herein.
Since the x36 and SDS lines are current, and following that there are many units out there less than one year old and still under warranty, I would imagine those folks would hesitate for reluctance of voiding their warranties. The Uniden manual for the SDS200 states that the warranty is invalid if (paraphrasing here) used in any configurations not sold by Uniden; programmed by anyone other than as detailed by the Operating Guide.....", and so forth. I would imagine that similar clauses appear in Uniden warranty statements for other units are well.
Even for units not under warranty, Uniden would likely refuse to make repairs on units that fall into the above criteria, even for hardware issues unrelated to the extraneous firmware.
There might be several brave souls out there with enough technical knowledge and equipment to repair their own radios. I think for the bulk of us, we have to count on Uniden for doing any warranty or non-warranty repairs, since they are the likely source of any hardware parts that might be required.
As far as Uniden jumping on board, well that's a whole different arena. My guess, based on past performance, is not to hold one's breath. With the usual YMMV and FWIW connotations included herein.
Sidewalk "tourney" here
Firmware, whether specifically noted in its official description or not is COPYRIGHTed. You can not modify for anyone except yourself. You can't sell it or give it away.
So unless Uniden officially noted in its original form that it is released into the public domain. Your answer to reverse engineering firmware is a big old NO!
Period.
Firmware, whether specifically noted in its official description or not is COPYRIGHTed. You can not modify for anyone except yourself. You can't sell it or give it away.
So unless Uniden officially noted in its original form that it is released into the public domain. Your answer to reverse engineering firmware is a big old NO!
Period.
MStep.
We agree and acknowledge all the points you make. Thank you for detailing them so neatly.
In answer to these points. Since this is an open public project it will be clear that there is NO warranty, NO liability and Uniden is totally absolved for any use under any circumstances. Basically this is a freeware project and covered under the Public GNU License. To further protect Uniden against claims etc we would like to work with Uniden to add a watermark to the update indicating that it was applied to the unit. We are not lawyers our intent is clear.
donc13.
Copyright law is so convoluted that it takes experts years to decide on what the word 'The' means. We have no intent to violate anyone's rights. Uniden has the power to say yes or no. We are asking them to either give an answer or a a veto on the whole thing.
In conclusion we are not going to let this thread to devolve into a legal argument. The projects goals are clear. Our intent is clear. Has anyone got other comments to make such as they would not use a public generated file and why. They would be happy to use such a file if it addressed existing issues. I would love to see this added to the firmware.
We agree and acknowledge all the points you make. Thank you for detailing them so neatly.
In answer to these points. Since this is an open public project it will be clear that there is NO warranty, NO liability and Uniden is totally absolved for any use under any circumstances. Basically this is a freeware project and covered under the Public GNU License. To further protect Uniden against claims etc we would like to work with Uniden to add a watermark to the update indicating that it was applied to the unit. We are not lawyers our intent is clear.
donc13.
Copyright law is so convoluted that it takes experts years to decide on what the word 'The' means. We have no intent to violate anyone's rights. Uniden has the power to say yes or no. We are asking them to either give an answer or a a veto on the whole thing.
In conclusion we are not going to let this thread to devolve into a legal argument. The projects goals are clear. Our intent is clear. Has anyone got other comments to make such as they would not use a public generated file and why. They would be happy to use such a file if it addressed existing issues. I would love to see this added to the firmware.
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Is this going to be a complete rewrite or does someone have the source code to update? If a rewrite, hopefully the operation, functions, protocol, features, etc... will stay the same or not drastically changed. I think It will take a few years (at least) working around the clock if starting from scratch.
good question. This is something we discussed early in deciding what our goals were. Since our objective is to fix known issues and improve general enjoyment and use of the hardware our primary target is to fix these issues and add in new features that have shown up on systems since the last official update.
Everyone please note we are NOT bashing the current firmware or situation we are simply looking at a viable way to progress.
The first objective will be to identify specific issues where the current firmware is not 100%. This type of change will not affect the structure or any internal parameters of the firmware or memory map. As such no functional changes to the operation or systems in the unit will occur. Becaise all the work is being done in the open any major changes would be discussed and decided upon as they are developed. Plug and play isthe path we wish to walk. User input will carry a lot of weight.
Everyone please note we are NOT bashing the current firmware or situation we are simply looking at a viable way to progress.
The first objective will be to identify specific issues where the current firmware is not 100%. This type of change will not affect the structure or any internal parameters of the firmware or memory map. As such no functional changes to the operation or systems in the unit will occur. Becaise all the work is being done in the open any major changes would be discussed and decided upon as they are developed. Plug and play isthe path we wish to walk. User input will carry a lot of weight.
This is an addition to the post above.
An example of the type of updates we wish to incorporate is fixing the miss identification of TIII SIDs. Many systems have the SID out by 1. This is because the SID value is calculated based on a hex 0-F range and not the 1 to 16 decimal range used by the systems. The fix is easy in the code
Whooo all fixed.
Now that I have opened that can of worms. what other known errors are being seen. Please please please dont say that system XXX is all wrong. We are looking for as accurate a description as possible of something not right.
An example of the type of updates we wish to incorporate is fixing the miss identification of TIII SIDs. Many systems have the SID out by 1. This is because the SID value is calculated based on a hex 0-F range and not the 1 to 16 decimal range used by the systems. The fix is easy in the code
Code:
val = val +1.Now that I have opened that can of worms. what other known errors are being seen. Please please please dont say that system XXX is all wrong. We are looking for as accurate a description as possible of something not right.
MStep
Member
If it is the purpose of your project to develop and distribute firmware which can be used with the full authority and approval of Uniden, I say go for it. Uniden's performance along those lines would seem to indicate that at this time they do not have the resources to deal with all the wonderful suggestions made here to "Joe Bearcat" over the many many months that he has been accumulating his "list".
Perhaps what you are suggesting is that Uniden "outsource" the continued development of firmware for the x36 and SDS models to your company instead. While I applaud the idea as certainly being novel, I'm not sure that the corporate structure and philosophy at Uniden is ready for such innovation.
I wish you the best of luck in your venture. I'm sure we're all interested in Uniden's response.
Perhaps what you are suggesting is that Uniden "outsource" the continued development of firmware for the x36 and SDS models to your company instead. While I applaud the idea as certainly being novel, I'm not sure that the corporate structure and philosophy at Uniden is ready for such innovation.
I wish you the best of luck in your venture. I'm sure we're all interested in Uniden's response.
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Just thinking that it would be in your best interests to contact Uniden's legal department directly first, before proceeding any further. Might save you a lot of wasted time.
I missed the announcement where Uniden made their firmware "open source" and posted the source on gitHub.
MStep.
Again you hit it on the head. We want to do this with the full authority and approval of Uniden. We fully understand the issues Uniden has been facing and wish to work as team with Uniden and not as a outsider. This project could be a resource for them. Worst case we can identify the specifics of what is not right offer a solution then all that would need to be done is have it written into the official FW release. I personally think outsourcing is not a viable option. All too often you get the left hand is not telling the right hand what its doing situation.
One thing I need to correct you on. We are not a company or organization. We are a group of individual members here at RR that have skills we wish to use for the improvement of our equipment and the community at large.
fxfscon.
Contacting Unidens legal department is like trying to book a trip to the moon. Just calling them and wading through the voice system let alone finding the right person then waiting for it to go up the ladder and down again then to the left and then to the right then ...welll you get the picture. We actually did discuss this and to put it bluntly we decided its better to go public with out intents and desires. Then have Uniden read them and contact the proper departments and people internally.. This way we are making progress rather than posting we are expecting a answer some time in the future maybe! sound familiar ??? No insult intended to anyone just making a point.
jtwalker.
i missed it too but ill look around just in case
. Uniden holds all the options. Until a decision is made we intend to have open and honest discussions like in post 11 on things we know are not perfect and a potential solution.
Again you hit it on the head. We want to do this with the full authority and approval of Uniden. We fully understand the issues Uniden has been facing and wish to work as team with Uniden and not as a outsider. This project could be a resource for them. Worst case we can identify the specifics of what is not right offer a solution then all that would need to be done is have it written into the official FW release. I personally think outsourcing is not a viable option. All too often you get the left hand is not telling the right hand what its doing situation.
One thing I need to correct you on. We are not a company or organization. We are a group of individual members here at RR that have skills we wish to use for the improvement of our equipment and the community at large.
fxfscon.
Contacting Unidens legal department is like trying to book a trip to the moon. Just calling them and wading through the voice system let alone finding the right person then waiting for it to go up the ladder and down again then to the left and then to the right then ...welll you get the picture. We actually did discuss this and to put it bluntly we decided its better to go public with out intents and desires. Then have Uniden read them and contact the proper departments and people internally.. This way we are making progress rather than posting we are expecting a answer some time in the future maybe! sound familiar ??? No insult intended to anyone just making a point.
jtwalker.
i missed it too but ill look around just in case
. Uniden holds all the options. Until a decision is made we intend to have open and honest discussions like in post 11 on things we know are not perfect and a potential solution.
belvdr
No longer interested in living
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I chuckled. I really doubt Uniden is really going to respond, let alone read it, so I'm not sure what progress is being made.
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Gary, just a few personal notes... I believe the only person from Uniden who reads radio reference is the UPM Joe M. I have seen that he has been on last week. I'm not sure if you would get an official response from him with regards to this issue but I wouldn't know. I also don't know how often he actually reads RadioReference anymore. Not my business.
I'm very sorry that a member jonwienki has not been on radio reference since September 30th, he would be all over this but unfortunately, apparently has personal issues that he has not been able to come on to radio reference and I saw another post that there are still outstanding repairs waiting for his attention. Just bad timing I guess as again, he would be on top of this... Bob.
I'm very sorry that a member jonwienki has not been on radio reference since September 30th, he would be all over this but unfortunately, apparently has personal issues that he has not been able to come on to radio reference and I saw another post that there are still outstanding repairs waiting for his attention. Just bad timing I guess as again, he would be on top of this... Bob.
jeffdafoe
Member
This is basically a debate about what fixes can be hacked into the bytecode. No one at Uniden will care as those changes will be so insignificant. Aka P25 TDMA control channel isn't going to happen via this route.
belvdr.
I am always the optimist. The others in the group like my positive attitude. Its good to be me LOL. Actually this thread and all the posts from the membership here are progress. Post 11 addresses and fixes one issue. There are others that are as simple to fix. Some are more complex. Either way this is the place to discuss them. There are a lot of members here who have skills, everyone is invited and welcome to add in their part. This thread is young we have only started.
trentbob.
Thank you for the information. We are not expecting a response overnight, some time tomorrow will be fine LOL. Seriously though I am sure that in the due course of events Uniden will be aware of the thread and its contents. What happens from there time will tell. Either way members will continue to post issues or suggest improvements and participate in solving or presenting a solution that can be implemented.
jeffadoe.
Thank you for the interesting and relevant post you are correct today we discuss or debate exactly how we are going to proceed. Soon the debate will be over and we can move on to the real meat of the thread. Improving and updating the firmware to bring it up to date with current system configurations. Hacking implies illicit work done secretly. Any investigation and exploration will be fully open and public. It is not hacking to say that this string of data is mapped as follows. That is research. Knowing how to interpret that data is skill and experience as well as education and often luck guesses. Sharing your discovery for others to use is why these forums exist.
I am always the optimist. The others in the group like my positive attitude. Its good to be me LOL. Actually this thread and all the posts from the membership here are progress. Post 11 addresses and fixes one issue. There are others that are as simple to fix. Some are more complex. Either way this is the place to discuss them. There are a lot of members here who have skills, everyone is invited and welcome to add in their part. This thread is young we have only started.
trentbob.
Thank you for the information. We are not expecting a response overnight, some time tomorrow will be fine LOL. Seriously though I am sure that in the due course of events Uniden will be aware of the thread and its contents. What happens from there time will tell. Either way members will continue to post issues or suggest improvements and participate in solving or presenting a solution that can be implemented.
jeffadoe.
Thank you for the interesting and relevant post you are correct today we discuss or debate exactly how we are going to proceed. Soon the debate will be over and we can move on to the real meat of the thread. Improving and updating the firmware to bring it up to date with current system configurations. Hacking implies illicit work done secretly. Any investigation and exploration will be fully open and public. It is not hacking to say that this string of data is mapped as follows. That is research. Knowing how to interpret that data is skill and experience as well as education and often luck guesses. Sharing your discovery for others to use is why these forums exist.
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