Man bulldozed over because of communications

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trentbob

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This whole story stinks of cover-up. Very disappointing to hear this about the PSP.
Don't be disappointed in the PSP, they were cleared as was The Game Commission bulldozer operator.

I'm not going to get to embedded in this and make this a political discussion but it is difficult not to as this is just a political discussion. Fake news is not always just by telling falsehoods, most fake news is omission of facts to sway the reader in one direction, often the wrong direction as you can see by the responses here to one News account.

I am a retired newspaper reporter and old school back in the days when we would not print something unless we could confirm it three different ways on the record and it was bipartisan reporting, those days are long, long gone, half the stuff you see on TV and read is simply made up for political agenda. Again fake news isn't just lying about the facts it's also a ommitting crucial facts.

Keep in mind Pennsylvania now has a far-left Democratic governor who is in favor of legalizing marijuana for recreational use. That's a whole different story but there is a faction in the state supporting that notion.

As you know the state went Republican in the last national presidential election and I believe it will again in 2020.

Apparently there was communication between the helicopter and the ground, be kind of silly if he was up there without communication with the ground huh? The state just has not released the transcripts or audio of that communication. A contingency plan in an event like this is often body cams are turned off. When there's a death like this the police are ready for a lawsuit.

This was a well-planned out raid, it was in the most rural area of Berks County and a bulldozer was instrumental in clearing brush, to say it went in blind as the lawyers contend isn't exactly true, the Corporal in charge of the raid was on front of the bulldozer and never saw the suspect deliberately hiding and evading police in the heavy brush, a suspect who I might add was on methadone, amphetamines and marijuana at the time of his death as shown by toxicology.

He was growing the marijuana on Game Commission property.

It's my belief that this lawsuit is going nowhere. The PSP which is a pretty straight organization did their investigation and cleared the Troopers and The Game Commission.

Being a criminal is a bit*h and does take some inherent risk while you're committing your crimes.

Whether you're a drug addict or not or support legalizing illegal drugs is another story and only plays into this story through the Press and the attorneys in an attempt to garnish sympathy for this Criminal. I like the Grateful Dead too just like the suspect did but I've never been charged with a crime.

It was very unfortunate that this happened. I feel for his family and his friends and equate him to a car thief, another relatively minor crime, having a fatal crash while evading police pursuit. It happens all the time and wouldn't have happened if the car thief pulled over and gave themselves up.

This guy would not have died if he had just put his hands up in the air and surrendered, taking his probation, community service or some other minor slap on the wrist in a sympathetic liberal justice system.

It's very unfortunate that this happened. Very sad.
 
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KK4JUG

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It is unfortunate but it can't really be an unexpected consequence.
 

phillydjdan

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PSP isn't the elite organization it used to be, Bob. I found that out first-hand...
 

trentbob

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PSP isn't the elite organization it used to be, Bob. I found that out first-hand...
I understand fully Dan what you're talking about, can't deny it. In this particular case though I don't think there was a deliberate cover up or devious intentions.

I wouldn't be surprised though if there was communication issues with the PSP, do you think? LOL.
 

phillydjdan

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Of course its possible. Consider this: aircraft used to try and use the ground-based OpenScam system but had issues with affiliating due to their elevation. The state solved this problem by deploying the air-to-ground system, which I believe is still used for this purpose. But it still has to be patched to the ground-based channel they need to operate on. Patches are glitchy at best unless they are done at the console level, so there's lots of room for error there. Not to mention you now have 2 different agencies working the scene together (PSP and PAGC) who operate on 2 different channels...
 

jonwienke

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Regardless of communication issues, commandeering a bulldozer to plow a path through brush too thick to walk or see through to hunt someone is grossly negligent, like driving at night with your lights off and striking a pedestrian you didn't see, then blaming the pedestrian. If the bulldozer driver can't see to drive unaided, and is relying on a spotter on the other end of a known unreliable comm channel, that would be called criminal negligence if a civilian did it.
 

trentbob

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Of course its possible. Consider this: aircraft used to try and use the ground-based OpenScam system but had issues with affiliating due to their elevation. The state solved this problem by deploying the air-to-ground system, which I believe is still used for this purpose. But it still has to be patched to the ground-based channel they need to operate on. Patches are glitchy at best unless they are done at the console level, so there's lots of room for error there. Not to mention you now have 2 different agencies working the scene together (PSP and PAGC) who operate on 2 different channels...
And a very remote rural part of Berks County... when you describe it that way there could be some liability if the helicopter was not able to convey information to the Posse On The Ground in a timely fashion.

That's why the PSP will not release the transcripts or audio of the communication of the mission.
 

trentbob

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Regardless of communication issues, commandeering a bulldozer to plow a path through brush too thick to walk or see through to hunt someone is grossly negligent, like driving at night with your lights off and striking a pedestrian you didn't see, then blaming the pedestrian. If the bulldozer driver can't see to drive unaided, and is relying on a spotter on the other end of a known unreliable comm channel, that would be called criminal negligence if a civilian did it.
Well these weren't citizens doing this. it happens this area was extremely well hidden and in a remote area with no access at all and the bulldozer was the way to go.

I wonder if the Corporal in charge who was riding on the front of the bulldozer was there because there was communication difficulties, it will be interesting to see what comes out in the trial.

Too bad the guy hid himself in the Deep brush so well to evade capture rather than just putting his hands up and giving up and taking his probation and public service, he'd be alive today.

Maybe the methadone, amphetamines and marijuana found in his blood clouded his better judgment.

I wonder who the liability lawyers will get as an expert on the PSP radio debacle. That would be their only approach I can think of to winning this case.

I don't think the handful of potheads outside protesting with their signs are going to win this case.

Should be an interesting outcome. I would think it would be a paper called the morning call who will be covering this.
 
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jonwienke

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If you're driving and mud gets splashed on your windshield, it's your responsibility to stop and clean the mud off so you can see before you continue on. If you don't, and hit someone, you're negligent and responsible.

The unreliable radio link is the "mud" in this case.
 

trentbob

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Hey Dan if I was the expert in the trial showing negligence on the part of the police regarding their communication methods... I would say they should have just been using one of their VHFhi simplex Tactical channels like 155.46 that they use on 95 here. :p
 

phillydjdan

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Nope. Can't use that. The Motorola salesperson said they can't because its not fancy P25 with encryption lol
 

trentbob

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Nope. Can't use that. The Motorola salesperson said they can't because its not fancy P25 with encryption lol
Oh geez, what was I thinking LOL. No encryption, got to wonder though, they were so far deep into Bumblef*** County would anybody have heard them anyway?

You are absolutely right though.
 

jonwienke

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Well these weren't citizens doing this.
What difference should that make? Why should the police have carte blanche to negligently kill and injure people with impunity? I know that's how things worked in Soviet Russia, but I thought we were better than that here.
 

trentbob

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What difference should that make? Why should the police have carte blanche to negligently kill and injure people with impunity? I know that's how things worked in Soviet Russia, but I thought we were better than that here.
HUH!!!o_O

As I said in the beginning I'm not going to get embedded in some kind of political discussion here as it is OT.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours because... we're not in Soviet Russia.
 

royldean

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The PSP which is a pretty straight organization did their investigation and cleared the Troopers and The Game Commission.

Whaaa???? Take a step back and read this. "We investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong - and oh yes, nobody can see the evidence..... because."

This WILL go somewhere - and the taxpayers are the ones who will foot the bill.
 
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