GSutton2686

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I am not sure. We in Summit only have Moto and Kenwood/EFJ for the time being. Looked in to BK and quickly turned away. Approached ICOM, but they have no interest at this time to add P25 LLA to their radios.
 

N8WCP

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July 1, 2025.

Don't hold your breath on it getting pushed back. With a five year lead time since the initial announcement, agencies have plenty of time to get the necessary updates. If they don't do it by the deadline, shame on them.
If agencies don't push back on this unfunded mandate, what's the next? All "End of Support" radios must be replaced? Show me in their user agreement where they have the legal authority to mandate this?
 

wa8pyr

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Any agencies on the system known to use Tait?

There are several in my county. They work just fine and are quite reasonably priced.

So far I've found that Harris, Tait and EFJWood are pretty competitive as regards price. And then there's /\/\, which apparently doesn't bother to try and compete; it seems like they just rest on their laurels and expect everybody to keep buying /\/\ despite the outrageously high prices.

I'd say more but it just makes me mad; I'd probably say something really naughty and have to moderate myself.
 

wa8pyr

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If agencies don't push back on this unfunded mandate, what's the next? All "End of Support" radios must be replaced? Show me in their user agreement where they have the legal authority to mandate this?

Mandate what, radio authentication? They own the system and one of their rights/responsibilities per MPP16 is system security; that gives them the right to take necessary steps to ensure the security of the system.

Personally the only problem I have with radio authentication is the completely unreasonable Motorola timeline for the XTS/XTL radios; otherwise it's relatively inexpensive and if it helps prevent the kind of crap that happened up in Summit County, so much the better.

I do not agree with the "end of life" declaration. They did at least update MPP31 to indicate that the "end of life" radios can still be used as long as they can be updated for radio authentication and do not require a new ID; I suspect quite a few Tier 4 partners with their own management terminals will overlook that and continue to put those radios on the system after 2025 as long as they have RA, though.
 

wa8pyr

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That was Stark County..

I knew that; dopey me, not sure why I was thinking Summit County when I was typing.

I am not sure. We in Summit only have Moto and Kenwood/EFJ for the time being. Looked in to BK and quickly turned away. Approached ICOM, but they have no interest at this time to add P25 LLA to their radios.

Don't blame you on RELM/BK; their local service/support is almost non-existent in Ohio.

Does Icom even have a 700/800 P25 trunking radio? Last time I checked all they had was VHF or UHF. Their main focus is on NXDN.
 

rcid1971

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Medina County Sheriff explores change to MARCS radio system

Was I mistaken in thinking MARCS/Harris already had patching capabilities?
Can't they program each radio with 700Mhz/800Mhz National Interoperability frequencies for scene interoperability?


MEDINA — The Medina County Sheriff’s Office is exploring whether it wants to change over to the MARCS radio system.

If it does, though, it will come at a steep cost.

County Administrator Scott Miller said the county has $1 million in remaining outstanding debt after building towers that are compatible with the Harris system. Overall, he said the county has a $2.8 million investment in the Harris system, which would be “thrown out the window” if the sheriff’s office switches to MARCS.

The county might have American Rescue Plan funds available for such a move, but it isn’t sure it’s eligible.

“We have to be cautious of how we spend American Rescue Plan money,” Miller said. “If it’s not in compliance, you have to pay the money back.”

The Multi-Agency Radio Communication System is an 700/800 MHz radio and data network that utilizes state-of-the-art trunked technology to provide statewide interoperability in digital clarity to its subscribers throughout Ohio and a 10-mile radius outside of the state.

The L3Harris P25 system combines the benefits of an IP-based network with industry-recognized P25 standards. The result is a single, cost-effective, IP-based network with high reliability. Its P25 mobile and portable radios deliver clear and secure communications with proven interoperability.

Currently, the county is split with half of the agencies using MARCS and the others using Harris.

MARCS provided a $50,000 grant to each fire department in the county last year — 13 in all — to purchase radios that they are required to use for a two-year period. Brunswick Hills Fire Chief Anthony Strazzo said he strongly believes in the MARCS system, largely because it's a statewide radio system paid for with tax dollars.

Police departments in Brunswick, Brunswick Hills, the Medina County Drug Task Force, MetroParks and Ohio State Highway Patrol are using MARCS. The sheriff’s office, Medina police, Hinckley police and Medina Schools, among others, are using the Harris radio system.

Wadsworth police and fire use a UHS 400 system but are in the process of switching to MARCS.

Sheriff Terry Grice hosted a meeting recently with agencies from all over the county to discuss the radio communication systems. He said there are now two bills proposed in the State Legislature: one that would force all agencies in the state to use the MARCS system, and the other to connect the MARCS and Harris systems.

He said the goal is for the best communication within the county in emergency situations.

Medina police Chief Ed Kinney said sometimes communicating with other agencies becomes very complicated if they are using different radio communication systems.

“It’s a challenge for everyone to communicate with each other,” he said.

Kinney said his department switched to a Harris system in 2018, and couldn’t be happier with it.

“We did a lot of research on it,” he said. “I’m happy with the Harris system for our needs. It offers good coverage, good clarity and good range.”

Miller is concerned that if the sheriff’s office switches to MARCS, it would cost millions of dollars to build compatible towers.

He said the county would not be reimbursed for expenses previously incurred. If the county is forced to switch to MARCS, it would be forced to pay MARCS a $20 fee per radio per month and would lose $350,000 in state funding.

Miller said the Harris system was originally selected because it met both the functional and budgetary needs of the county and political subdivisions. He said the state is “attempting to create a ‘one-size-fits-all’ system while using county 911 monies to fund the project.”

House Bill 801, currently being considered in the State Legislature, would mandate state and local entities, including Medina County, switch to the MARCS radio system. The bill was proposed last year and is being resurrected. Rep. Sharon Ray, R-Wadsworth, has been active in discussions about the issue. She has asked the Medina County commissioners to testify against HB 801.

Commissioner Bill Hutson said he hopes that the County Commissioners Association of Ohio takes a stand on the issue.

“We’d lose in many ways with this,” Commissioner Colleen Swedyk said. “It’s creating a monopoly for one company. I believe around the state, government entitles should be able to make a choice. What about the $2.8 million we’ve already used?”

When the original proposals for the radio system were received, Miller said MARCS was disqualified because it did not have an option for a 400 radio system. He said this was a requirement because all the fire departments in the county had 400 systems at the time.

Grice said there are six MARCS towers in the county, and two Harris towers.

Hutson said 76 of 88 counties in Ohio are using MARCS.

“It’s being pushed,” he said. “The county went with Harris to support fire (departments). They converted (to MARCS) and now want the county to convert.”

The Harris radios are not compatible with the MARCS radio, although they can be converted.

“The issue is the towers,” Miller said.

“There is a huge push not to allow other systems to talk to each other,” Commissioner Steve Hambley said.
 

wa8pyr

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Medina County Sheriff explores change to MARCS radio system

Was I mistaken in thinking MARCS/Harris already had patching capabilities?
Can't they program each radio with 700Mhz/800Mhz National Interoperability frequencies for scene interoperability?

1. The systems can be interconnected using ISSI, but the state has shown reluctance in the past to do so. The only other option for patching is for the dispatcher to patch through their console which doesn't always work that well. But if you have shared interoperable talkgroups (and each others' daily operations talkgroups) in your radio, why would you need to patch?

2. Yes. That bit at the end of the story about the county Harris radios being incompatible with MARCS is bull. They're already 700/800 MHz P25 trunked radios so they will work; all that's needed is programming to add each others' ops talkgroups (they should already have the MARCS interop talkgroups).

I agree with the county commissioners about the proposed House Bill 801 monopoly; why would an agency want to go with MARCS (and all those added expenses) if they already have a system that works and costs considerably less money to use? HB801 also runs afoul of home rule.
 
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amcferrin90

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I’m sure this site is going to improve coverage for Violet township.
I wouldn't count on it. There's a site a couple miles up Mink St that you can't even sniff in Violet Twp so what's a couple miles going to do? What would cover Violet Twp and everything north and west of Lancaster would be a tower up by Castaways. It would do surprisingly well in fact. And now I will refrain from further comment because I would get administered. Awe heck Fairfield County got duped. They must have gotten a super sweet deal to get what they got. And now I'll shut up. Well hang on I mean all the Sheriff cars have those UHF repeaters, a lot of fire equipment has them too. It's just like why did you leave UHF? Ok now I'll stop. Guess I could say that much and stay out of trouble.
 

N8WCP

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1. The systems can be interconnected using ISSI, but the state has shown reluctance in the past to do so.

MARCS met with Harris a few years ago to discuss an ISSI, the cost to fund the project is most likely why it hasn't advanced.

The only other option for patching is for the dispatcher to patch through their console which doesn't always work that well.

True, but its the most cost effective option.

But if you have shared interoperable talkgroups (and each others' daily operations talkgroups) in your radio, why would you need to patch?

Back in the 3.5 days you could have the MARCS I/O talkgroups at no cost, not the case today.

2. Yes. That bit at the end of the story about the county Harris radios being incompatible with MARCS is bull. They're already 700/800 MHz P25 trunked radios so they will work; all that's needed is programming to add each others' ops talkgroups (they should already have the MARCS interop talkgroups).

Agree, but MARCS will charge for those talkgroups.

I agree with the county commissioners about the proposed House Bill 801 monopoly; why would an agency want to go with MARCS (and all those added expenses) if they already have a system that works and costs considerably less money to use? HB801 also runs afoul of home rule.

Agree, and you also have the Cleveland system to consider, they've invested millions of tax dollars building a robust system.
 

wa8pyr

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MARCS met with Harris a few years ago to discuss an ISSI, the cost to fund the project is most likely why it hasn't advanced.


I was there. Harris offered to provide their part of the project at no charge but MARCS still nixed the idea. If I recall correctly the cost for the necessary box at the MARCS end was around a couple hundred thousand dollars.

Agree, and you also have the Cleveland system to consider, they've invested millions of tax dollars building a robust system.

Not only Cleveland, but NW Ohio, Mahoning County, and the dozen or so other counties which still maintain their own radio systems, and are happy with them.
 

rcid1971

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Agree, and you also have the Cleveland system to consider, they've invested millions of tax dollars building a robust system.

City of Cleveland historically has no problem taking the state to court for Home Rule cases.
 

WX4JCW

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Found some New ones in the Columbus Area, 57442 but I didn't hear it was on 57242 which appears to be CPD
 

W8KIC

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City of Cleveland historically has no problem taking the state to court for Home Rule cases.

And they usually lose! The city of Cleveland has a lengthy history of claiming Home Rule on just about any state law they don’t like as they see it as an infringement on their very existence. Thankfully, their record stinks!
 

wa8pyr

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And they usually lose! The city of Cleveland has a lengthy history of claiming Home Rule on just about any state law they don’t like as they see it as an infringement on their very existence. Thankfully, their record stinks!

Why thankfully? Do you want the state dictating every single aspect of your life?

Granted the City of Cleveland can go overboard on many occasions, but there are some things where decisions should be made locally (such as which radio system to use).
 

W8KIC

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Why thankfully? Do you want the state dictating every single aspect of your life?

Granted the City of Cleveland can go overboard on many occasions, but there are some things where decisions should be made locally (such as which radio system to use).

No, I don’t want all of the decisions being made for Ohio cities, municipalities, villages or counties to originate out of Columbus and I never said that! I was just pointing out how totally dysfunctional the city of Cleveland really is and sadly by design. I’ve lived in the eastern suburbs of the CLE almost all my life and have watched total rejects who make up a majority of city council member’s continuously run the city right into the ground. Unfortunately, they need guidance on a regular basis from the outside to ensure that they don’t commit political suicide!
 

wa8pyr

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No, I don’t want all of the decisions being made for Ohio cities, municipalities, villages or counties to originate out of Columbus and I never said that! I was just pointing out how totally dysfunctional the city of Cleveland really is and sadly by design. I’ve lived in the eastern suburbs of the CLE almost all my life and have watched total rejects who make up a majority of city council member’s continuously run the city right into the ground. Unfortunately, they need guidance on a regular basis from the outside to ensure that they don’t commit political suicide!

I have to agree about Cleveland being dysfunctional. My parents lived in Shaker for over 20 years (before they bought a house on Warrington they were just down the street from you if your listing in the Callbook is up to date) and I got pretty familiar with the peccadilloes of the City of Cleveland thanks to the tales told by my Dad.....
 

W8KIC

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I have to agree about Cleveland being dysfunctional. My parents lived in Shaker for over 20 years (before they bought a house on Warrington they were just down the street from you if your listing in the Callbook is up to date) and I got pretty familiar with the peccadilloes of the City of Cleveland thanks to the tales told by my Dad.....
I’m very close to Warrington Rd. I live in one of the apartments on Van Aken Blvd. between Lee and Ashby on the south side of the street. It’s the epitome of a simulcast distortion hell hole but otherwise, it’s not to bad. Having SHPD right up the street is a major plus but I’m just baffled as to what’s taking them so long to move to the county’s P25 system. I’ve been told that the radios have already been purchased and that‘s pretty much about it. I reminded them that both East Cleveland and Euclid made the switch over several years ago. About the only others PD’s in the area that I’m aware of that are still on VHF are University Heights and Lyndhurst, with most of the area’s FD’s having made the shift to Ohio MARCS-IP. I guess there’ll always be a few holdouts somewhere. Lol!
 
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