Mason County - New digital radios need replacement

[fredva]

According to an article in the Point Pleasant Register, the Mason County Sheriff's Department purchased digital radios which will not be compatible with new FCC regulations. They are asking the Mason County Commission for help in purchasing new digital radios, which are estimated to cost around $163,000. They say the radios are needed by September.

There aren't a lot of technical details in the article, but the sheriff's department has a Mototrbo license issued in 2009. I'm not sure which regulations the radios don't comply with. My first thought is narrowbanding, although it seems odd to me that a radio system purchased since 2009 wouldn't comply with narrowbanding. The other thought is they feel the need to go with the P25 standard used by other counties and the state.

I'm not sure the current digital radios are in use. If they are, it must be on a limited basis. Analog is still used for dispatching the deputies.

The sheriff who was awarded the grant for the current digital radios is no longer in office. He pled guilty to misuse of county funds regarding other purchases.

The info on the radios starts at the fourth paragraph in this article: Point Pleasant (WV) Register - Commission hears plans for softball field

 

[MOTOROLANUT]

Gotta hand it to the Sheriff and Motorola Rep who bought and sold them this bill of goods.
What a bunch of Morons..Of course only in WV would this happen...LMAO
They should have bought UHF XTS/XTL's that were compatible with the IRP/SIRN not TRBO equipment.
Glad I don't live in Mason County...LOL

 

[JRayfield]

MOTOTRBO equipment/systems fully meet the narrowband mandate requirements. In fact, when used in repeater operation, they meet the FCC's rules for "6.25 khz or equivalent" operation (which, of course, isn't required yet, but will likely be some day).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

According to an article in the Point Pleasant Register, the Mason County Sheriff's Department purchased digital radios which will not be compatible with new FCC regulations. They are asking the Mason County Commission for help in purchasing new digital radios, which are estimated to cost around $163,000. They say the radios are needed by September.

There aren't a lot of technical details in the article, but the sheriff's department has a Mototrbo license issued in 2009. I'm not sure which regulations the radios don't comply with. My first thought is narrowbanding, although it seems odd to me that a radio system purchased since 2009 wouldn't comply with narrowbanding. The other thought is they feel the need to go with the P25 standard used by other counties and the state.

I'm not sure the current digital radios are in use. If they are, it must be on a limited basis. Analog is still used for dispatching the deputies.

The sheriff who was awarded the grant for the current digital radios is no longer in office. He pled guilty to misuse of county funds regarding other purchases.

The info on the radios starts at the fourth paragraph in this article: Point Pleasant (WV) Register - Commission hears plans for softball field

 

[SCPD]

Talk about a big waste of money and big oops.Seems a /\/\ rep sold to another getting away clean. I dont know why agencies just dont upgrade to xts/xtls if they can use it, unless the state or surrounding areas moved over to a diff system. I wish everyone in a specific state would stick to one type of system for straight interop. Just my thought.

 

[BigEd1314]

But I think its the P-25 "interoperability" that the FCC is looking for.....

 

[jim202]

But I think its the P-25 "interoperability" that the FCC is looking for.....

There is nothing in any FCC rules that require a P25 interoperability.

Many sales reps twist the facts around and also play the narrow banding to make a sale of new equipment. There should be a jail time for all these un needed sales that the gullible public safety managers get suckered into. They are just too stupid to get some outside help to see if they are having a ring put in their nose.

 

[JRayfield]

The XTS/XTL radios don't do an agency a bit of good for "operability" (which has to come before "interoperability") unless they can afford the infrastructure to support those units in digital mode. And there's the problem - the infrastructure for P25 can easily run into the millions of dollars. Most smaller, rural agencies can't come even close to raising that kind of money. It all boils down to a matter of economics - specifically, lack of enough money to purchase the P25 systems that the Office of Homeland Security has promoted.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Talk about a big waste of money and big oops.Seems a /\/\ rep sold to another getting away clean. I dont know why agencies just dont upgrade to xts/xtls if they can use it, unless the state or surrounding areas moved over to a diff system. I wish everyone in a specific state would stick to one type of system for straight interop. Just my thought.

 

[JRayfield]

While you might think that it would make sense for the agency that is responsible for oversight of radio communications to be the ones promoting radio communciations, in this case, the FCC really has had little to nothing to do with promoting "interoperability". It's the Office of Homeland Security that done the 'promoting' of P25 as a 'standard' for everyone.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

But I think its the P-25 "interoperability" that the FCC is looking for.....

 

[JRayfield]

Jim, there are many agencies that have moved to digital systems (such as MOTOTRBO or Nexedge) because narrowband analog does not work well at all. From personal experience, as well as what I've heard from agencies that I've not been personally involved with, there has been a consistent drop in range when agencies have moved from wideband to narrowband analog FM. The engineering math also supports the fact that moving from analog wideband to narrowband FM may result in a substantial drop in range.

Sometimes this drop in range has been as much as 25% to 30%. Many agencies were already pushing the limits of coverage of their wideband analog systems, so when they've narrowbanded, the drop in range has been a major problem.

So while some agencies could have just reprogrammed their radios to narrowband analog FM, some have opted to replace them with newer digital-capable units that will maintain, or even increase, their range as compared to their wideband analog FM systems.

I think, too, with all of the talk of 'narrowbanding' and 'digital', there are many end users who don't understand radio communications enough, such that they've misunderstood this subject. Add to that all of the journalists who have written articles on the subject, who also had no clue as to what they were writing about. I've read some articles that were just plain horrible as to 'facts' about 'narrowbanding' and 'digital'. Someone who has little-to-no technical understanding of this subject will read such articles and can easily end up thinking that it's a 'mandate' that everyone move to digital (when, of course, it's not).

So, while there may be some unscrupulous sales people out there (I'm sure there are), don't blame all of them for the 'misunderstanding' that everyone has to move to digital by Jan. 1, 2013. I've seen a lot more 'misunderstanding', due to public safety personnel just not being technically knowledgeable of the subject, as compared to 'unscrupulous' sales people. I know absolutely nothing about guns, and of course, law enforcement officers know a lot about them. So it would be very easy for me to misunderstand a lot of the 'technical aspects' of guns, if a sales person tried to talk to me about them. But that wouldn't mean that the sales person was 'unscrupulous'. In fact, you state that "many sales reps twist the facts". Why don't you name the ones that you have personally heard "twist the facts". If you're going to make accusations about people, then tell us who these people are, so that others can be 'protected' from them.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

There is nothing in any FCC rules that require a P25 interoperability.

Many sales reps twist the facts around and also play the narrow banding to make a sale of new equipment. There should be a jail time for all these un needed sales that the gullible public safety managers get suckered into. They are just too stupid to get some outside help to see if they are having a ring put in their nose.

 

[fredva]

The XTS/XTL radios don't do an agency a bit of good for "operability" (which has to come before "interoperability") unless they can afford the infrastructure to support those units in digital mode.

The state of WV has built a P25 infrastructure. There are other counties in WV that have switched to digital by making use of the P25 SIRN system built by the state.

 

[JRayfield]

There are several states with "statewide" P25 systems. But that doesn't mean that these systems cover "all" of the state. Here in Missouri, we'll have a "statewide" system, but there will be very limited coverage for portables (one person estimated that there -might- be 50% coverage, using portables). In those cases, the infrastructure just isn't enough for many county and local agencies to use. I'm not familiar with the WV system, with regards to how many sites they have - I'll have to do some research on that one.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

The state of WV has built a P25 infrastructure. There are other counties in WV that have switched to digital by making use of the P25 SIRN system built by the state.

 

[fredva]

There are several states with "statewide" P25 systems. But that doesn't mean that these systems cover "all" of the state. Here in Missouri, we'll have a "statewide" system, but there will be very limited coverage for portables (one person estimated that there -might- be 50% coverage, using portables). In those cases, the infrastructure just isn't enough for many county and local agencies to use. I'm not familiar with the WV system, with regards to how many sites they have - I'll have to do some research on that one.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

According to the database, there are two P25 sites in Mason County, and only one Mototrbo site for the local sheriff's office.

 

[MOTOROLANUT]

According to the database, there are two P25 sites in Mason County, and only one Mototrbo site for the local sheriff's office.

2 (2) 010 (A) Point Pleasant North Mason 451.98750 453.66250c 453.68750 460.03750 460.06250 460.33750a
2 (2) 011 (B) Point Pleasant South Mason 453.26250c 453.36250 460.28750 460.46250 460.88750 463.98750

Fred you are quite correct in the two tower sites. There are only a handful of counties in WV who opted out of participation in the WVIRP/SIRN. Give it some time and they will probably come full circle as well.

The Mason Co Sheriff, County Commission and who ever else involved in the TRBO purchase made a very bad judgement call. Now the taxpayers must pay the price unless Mason County can get grant money for IRP radios. But most grants have dried up....LOL