Mass shooting in a Uvalde, TX school

[KevinC]

I know this is a very emotionally charged subject, but please keep the comments radio related.

 

[hiegtx]

The New York Post reported the same thing a few days ago, albeit unconfirmed at the time. Now in his "defense", IF he was on scene, I would assume about 20 other people around him had radios and he could have stood right next to one of them. Does anyone know if Arredondo was even at the scene?

The latest reported comments from the Uvalde ISD chief, Arredondo, was that the reason he did not take 'either of his two "police" radios' was because he wanted to keep his hands free if he needed to use his own handgun. That begs the question of whether there is a shortage of radio holsters or cases with belt clips. He is also saying that he did not consider himself the incident commander, and thought someone else was in control, though he did not specify who that person would be: a Texas DPS officer, or the Uvalde County sheriff (or a senior deputy)?

If he had "two police radios" that he could use, were both of them programmed to include Uvalde County S.O. & the Uvalde PD? Or was one configured to access the two DMR Uhf conventional radio channels licensed to the ISD? It sounds as though he had access available to contact local law enforcement agencies, but chose not to utilize that capability.

You could have a trillion dollar advanced radio system that does absolutely no good if you don't have the damn radio in your hand. Totally unacceptable.

That;s my thinking as well.

Edit to add a link to the Texas Tribune article on Arredondo's comments:

Waiting for keys, unable to break down doors: Uvalde schools police chief defends delay in confronting gunman

Criticized by law enforcement experts for slowness in taking out the shooter, Pete Arredondo described an agonizing wait for a key that would work. In an interview with The Texas Tribune, he said he hadn’t spoken out sooner because he didn’t want to compound his hometown’s grief or point blame.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Ensnared]

I knew this was going to happen. Why do they need to buy radios when they can't take them where they are needed?

 

[hiegtx]

This incident continues to evolve.

First interior image released in Uvalde school shooting shows officers with more firepower than previously believed

The image raises more questions regarding the response timeline reported by police.

www.wfaa.com

According to this article, officers with rifles arrived fairly early in the event. The first officer with a ballistic shield (which is what the Uvalde ISD police chief said they were waiting on) arrived at 11:52am. A second officer, with a shield, arrived at 12:03pm, with a third officer with shield two minutes after that.

As the linked article indicates, Chief Arredondo (of Uvalde ISD) called the Uvalde PD requesting assistance, saying that 'all they had were pistols'. According to a different report, on another local (DFW) news story, Arredondo asked for a police radio, since he did not have one. But we've already seen his comments elsewhere that he left his 'two radios' because he wanted to keep his hands free. I have not yet seen any further clarification as to whether either of the 'two radios' would have been able to access Uvalde PD or S.O. channels.

While it was reported that, at some point, officers were 'waiting for a key' to the classroom door, there have been no comments that anyone actually tried the door. One report, from a different source (again, that's here in Dallas/Fort Worth, not in the Uvalde or Austin areas) that some had expressed doubts that the shooter could have locked the door.

(The article linked above is from Austin TV station KVUE)

 

[mmckenna]

Doesn't matter how this goes now, they screwed this up with their shifting stories. They've lost the trust of the people that they are supposed to protect. Continuing to hide behind the veil of secrecy isn't helping. I'm sure the truth will eventually come out, but the trust is broken at this point.

 

[chrismol1]

Doesn't matter how this goes now, they screwed this up with their shifting stories. They've lost the trust of the people that they are supposed to protect. Continuing to hide behind the veil of secrecy isn't helping. I'm sure the truth will eventually come out, but the trust is broken at this point.

I'm sure they've increased their trust with this new item.
They don't want you see or read anything. I'm sure in a year something will come out in a nicely packaged summary report with no details but
Possibly don't expect incident records. Even blurred or redacted, I'm sure no one actually wants to see the aftermath but instead the events leading up to the door breach. They don't want you see that

Uvalde Police Try to Prevent the Release of ‘Embarrassing’ Records

According to a letter obtained by Vice News from an attorney representing Uvalde, local authorities fear that some of the material could have “highly embarrassing information” related to the police response. The letter was written by a private law firm to lobby the state’s attorney general, who will rule which records ultimately will be released to the public.

The attorneys for Uvalde argue that body-camera footage, 911 calls, emails, and texts related to the shooting should not be released, arguing that some of the information is “not of legitimate concern to the public” and that releasing materials such as police training guides and policy manuals could reveal “methods, techniques, and strategies for preventing and predicting crime.” They also argue that many records should remain private as the shooting is investigated by state and federal authorities

 

[mmckenna]

Uvalde Police Try to Prevent the Release of ‘Embarrassing’ Records

And when police departments wonder why the public doesn't blindly trust them, we can all point to this.

I get it, I work with our PD closely, I know them, and they are good people, but all it takes is actions like this to make everyone look bad. I'd hope that other agencies would start putting pressure on these guys to do the right thing. Let's face it, his career is over. His attempts at trying to save it are just making things worse. Obvious where his priorities lie.

 

[Giddyuptd]

I'll leave this here and let many discuss the issues on communications. While it appears a management issue was present this goes to show anyone in charge of or over communications you better cover yourselves.

Regardless if you do a vfd or reserve law enforcement on side here and are over a radio system is a example of a scape goat blaming the communications. They are your friend when things are fine but end of day you have your job as a Administrator of said system to legally protect yourself and department not them.

You can bet the elected commissions or managers for that entity are to blame if indeed true there was no reception on their 700mhz system cheaping out options for a system.

I find it hard to believe they had zero reception or weak reception. But this is a example for others to cover themselves in the communications world.

 

[Giddyuptd]

Scape goat blaming communications. If even so there was no to zero reception let's see it. In end the person who decided to cheap out their radio system should be held responsible if the facts are true there was a communications issue which I find hard to believe.

 

[mostinterestingman]

Scape goat blaming communications. If even so there was no to zero reception let's see it. In end the person who decided to cheap out their radio system should be held responsible if the facts are true there was a communications issue which I find hard to believe.

No system is designed for 100% in building coverage. None. There isn't a single system that doesn't have some dead areas in these 30dB buildings. Every_Single_Rural radio system is designed for mobile coverage. Not portable. It would cost BILLIONS of dollars to build out a Texas statewide system designed for in building coverage.

I don't think you are going to "hold anyone responsible" for that system design 20 years ago. Now if you want to go after them for not doing a damn thing to enhance anything in those 20 years since, fire away.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

No system is designed for 100% in building coverage. None. There isn't a single system that doesn't have some dead areas in these 30dB buildings. Every_Single_Rural radio system is designed for mobile coverage. Not portable. It would cost BILLIONS of dollars to build out a Texas statewide system designed for in building coverage.

I don't think you are going to "hold anyone responsible" for that system design 20 years ago. Now if you want to go after them for not doing a damn thing to enhance anything in those 20 years since, fire away.

The problem is the system in question has only been in place for a little over a decade but in-building coverage hasn't really become the concern that it is today until the last 5 years or so and under current standards, existing construction is exempted from requirements to ensure in-building coverage. Some systems are designed for 100% indoor coverage but those systems tend to be purpose built for a specific campus (much smaller scale with local RF infrastructure). Now what you see going on in some jurisdictions is that fire marshals are going around and discovering buildings which have coverage issues (usually part of annual inspections) and relaying that information to other agencies which may need to be aware of it so they can build/make communications plans as necessary. In most jurisdictions these days, new commercial construction is required to meet in-building coverage standards or buildings are required to be retrofit when renovations are performed (renovation requirements varies with jurisdiction).

 

[KevinC]

The problem is the system in question has only been in place for a little over a decade but in-building coverage hasn't really become the concern that it is today until the last 5 years or so and under current standards, existing construction is exempted from requirements to ensure in-building coverage. Some systems are designed for 100% indoor coverage but those systems tend to be purpose built for a specific campus (much smaller scale with local RF infrastructure). Now what you see going on in some jurisdictions is that fire marshals are going around and discovering buildings which have coverage issues (usually part of annual inspections) and relaying that information to other agencies which may need to be aware of it so they can build/make communications plans as necessary. In most jurisdictions these days, new commercial construction is required to meet in-building coverage standards or buildings are required to be retrofit when renovations are performed (renovation requirements varies with jurisdiction).

Along those lines, one MRG agency I worked on had no coverage inside the SO. Not necessarily due to weak signal but due to extreme interference from electronics inside the building. The VHF noise floor was around -80 dBm throughout most of facility.

 

[mostinterestingman]

Along those lines, one MRG agency I worked on had no coverage inside the SO. Not necessarily due to weak signal but due to extreme interference from electronics inside the building. The VHF noise floor was around -80 dBm throughout most of facility.

Sure, you can go into Eagle Pass PD with a 100 RSSI and still not talk out of the building because of the noise floor at the tower site. There has been zero local funding for maintenance or expansion for this system since it's inception.

 

[mostinterestingman]

The problem is the system in question has only been in place for a little over a decade but in-building coverage hasn't really become the concern that it is today until the last 5 years or so and under current standards, existing construction is exempted from requirements to ensure in-building coverage. Some systems are designed for 100% indoor coverage but those systems tend to be purpose built for a specific campus (much smaller scale with local RF infrastructure). Now what you see going on in some jurisdictions is that fire marshals are going around and discovering buildings which have coverage issues (usually part of annual inspections) and relaying that information to other agencies which may need to be aware of it so they can build/make communications plans as necessary. In most jurisdictions these days, new commercial construction is required to meet in-building coverage standards or buildings are required to be retrofit when renovations are performed (renovation requirements varies with jurisdiction).

Yeah well over a decade now. Del Rio, Eagle Pass, Uvalde have all complained about in building as well as outdoor operable coverage for over a decade as well, but no one has ever brought money to the table except for TXDOT, and that's just been for the backhaul to Austin & SUAII. MRG has always had their pockets turned inside out when it comes to maintenance, and especially expansion.

 

[KevinC]

Sure, you can go into Eagle Pass PD with a 100 RSSI and still not talk out of the building because of the noise floor at the tower site. There has been zero local funding for maintenance or expansion for this system since it's inception.

Actually the noise floor at the Eagle Pass site isn't that bad at all.

 

[cavmedic]

Scape goat blaming communications. If even so there was no to zero reception let's see it. In end the person who decided to cheap out their radio system should be held responsible if the facts are true there was a communications issue which I find hard to believe.

Where were all the " when all else fail" hams at. (sarcasm)

 

[mostinterestingman]

Where were all the " when all else fail" hams at. (sarcasm)
[/QUO

I hate to say it but a ham could at least have talked from inside the school to the officers outside.

You don't even need a 20 million dollar radio system to switch to TXCALL1D and talk to everyone on the scene for free.

MRG Zone 3
USBP Zone X
TXDPS Zone I

 

[AJAT]

There was a ham there ready to help, but he was waiting on his yellow vest before he went in

 

[mostinterestingman]

There was a ham there ready to help, but he was waiting on his yellow vest before he went in

Savage lol

Bet he wouldn't have tossed his radio before he went in either

 

[cavmedic]

He would still be funbling on how to program his feng