MBTA solicitation to switch P25 Phase II

[Pacmannion]

Was searching Google for MBTA ProVoice usage (of course, many threads on RR came up) because I was thinking of buying the ProVoice upgrade for my new SDS100 and found this little nugget right here:

MBTA > Business Center > Bidding and Solicitations > Design & Construction

bc.mbta.com

MBTA has put out a solicitation for bids to build out of a P25 Phase 2 system and expects to award the bid this summer and wants "installation substantially completed in 2025" according to this attached PDF.

They want coverage not just from the 128 area but now also "expanded out to the I-495 areas north, south, and west."

 

[garys]

The EDACS system is getting pretty old and is no longer supported by Harris. My guess is that they want the enhanced coverage for Commuter Rail and Police operations.

Construction of the EDACS system dragged on for years, so maybe they don't want that to happen again.

I won't be surprised if they award the contract to Harris.

 

[StoliRaz]

And it only took me purchasing the ProVoice option on my 436 a month ago to convince them to upgrade, rendering the upgrade completely useless since they're the only ones around here still using it 😂oh well, I knew that would happen🙄

 

[garys]

It's like when you lose a tool, spend hours looking for it, and then give up and buy a replacement. THEN the "lost" tool shows up. I swear those things have legs.

The only scanner I had the Pro Voice option on was my 436HP. When I bought a SDS100, I decided not to get Pro Voice. If I really wanted to listen to the T, I could use DSD+.

Having been involved in purchasing a couple of large tech systems, I can tell you that they rarely get done in the projected time line.

And it only took me purchasing the ProVoice option on my 436 a month ago to convince them to upgrade, rendering the upgrade completely useless since they're the only ones around here still using it 😂oh well, I knew that would happen🙄

 

[kb1kvd]

Most likely it is for the police, bus and rapid transit side of the MBTA, since the commuter rail is on analog and nxdn vhf for their operations. Any change to the commuter rail side would end up coming across either mine or my senior engineers desk.

 

[garys]

The MBTA owns the rolling stock for the Commuter Rail and thus the Transit Police have jurisdiction in any city or town through which the trains roll or stop. That includes Rhode Island stations from what I was told by a now retired Transit officer. They also have full police authority in any MA city or town where the MBTA has any facility or property. Stoughton has a commuter rail station and a warehouse which belongs to the T. So, the Transit Police have jurisdiction here even though BAT provides the bus service.

All of which I expect you know give what you do for a railroad.

Most likely it is for the police, bus and rapid transit side of the MBTA, since the commuter rail is on analog and nxdn vhf for their operations. Any change to the commuter rail side would end up coming across either mine or my senior engineers desk.

 

[kb1kvd]

That's correct the MBTA owns the entire system by virtue of that the Transit police have jurisdiction on any and all trackage that is owned by the MBTA/Mass Dot. This RFLOI is for the Transit police, and most likely the bus and rapid transit side of the house. Since MBTA railroad operations (commuter rail) uses the AAR channels. So this wouldn't affect railroad operations but it would greatly improve the coverage of the Transit police radio coverage, especially with south coast rail coming online in the next year or so.

 

[garys]

Transit Police have several Talk Groups on the MSP Analog and CoMIRS trunks systems. It's possible, although I can't confirm it that they may be operating on those systems with simulcast on their UHF-T channels. During testing, the penetration of the 700Mhz Metro Boston P25 system was much better than anticipate. That's according a friend who was involved in that before he retired.

 

[kb1kvd]

Correct, they are simulcast onto the MSP/CoMIRS trunks. They are largely operating on the UHF-T band channel for now but if this project takes off then they might swing fully over to the trunks, at least that's what I am told by radio tech for the MBTA. I know when I was working with the engineers for the southcoast rail project on the VHF radio requirements, I saw that they had allocated space for a dedicated radio system for transit police. It's funny how the MBTA (bus,rapid transit and police) are completely separate entities from the commuter rail even though we all answer to the same agency.

 

[N1EXA]

That's correct the MBTA owns the entire system by virtue of that the Transit police have jurisdiction on any and all trackage that is owned by the MBTA/Mass Dot. This RFLOI is for the Transit police, and most likely the bus and rapid transit side of the house. Since MBTA railroad operations (commuter rail) uses the AAR channels. So this wouldn't affect railroad operations but it would greatly improve the coverage of the Transit police radio coverage, especially with south coast rail coming online in the next year or so.

Hey KD1KVD
Is ARR Ch41 still going to be used for New Bedford Dispatch for Keolis and What Happens to MA Coastal on CH41 ?

N1EXA Pete

 

[garys]

Not to mention "The Ride."

Since the new system will be P25, the police should be able to switch from one system to the other pretty seamlessly. There are some feature differences between Harris and Motorola, but the core functionalities are supposed to be interchangeable.

Correct, they are simulcast onto the MSP/CoMIRS trunks. They are largely operating on the UHF-T band channel for now but if this project takes off then they might swing fully over to the trunks, at least that's what I am told by radio tech for the MBTA. I know when I was working with the engineers for the southcoast rail project on the VHF radio requirements, I saw that they had allocated space for a dedicated radio system for transit police. It's funny how the MBTA (bus,rapid transit and police) are completely separate entities from the commuter rail even though we all answer to the same agency.

 

[StoliRaz]

It's like when you lose a tool, spend hours looking for it, and then give up and buy a replacement. THEN the "lost" tool shows up. I swear those things have legs.

I was just looking for a small wire cup brush that's used in a drill the other day. I know I have one in my basement somewhere, I couldn't find it and they're cheap enough so I bought a new one at Depot yesterday. I know my other one is going to turn up any day now 😅 That really does always happen.

I hear you on the timeline. It's just like construction projects. Always over budget and never on schedule

 

[KB1UAM]

Wonder if this has anything to do with the expansion to South coast rail? Maybe looking for more radio coverage. Also wonder how MBTA Police will be communicating to Dispatch from the new Rail lines in the south coast. Will the 800 MSP talkgroups be permanently patched on zone 3? Or will they expand the Uhf repeaters

 

[N1EXA]

Wonder if this has anything to do with the expansion to South coast rail? Maybe looking for more radio coverage. Also wonder how MBTA Police will be communicating to Dispatch from the new Rail lines in the south coast. Will the 800 MSP talkgroups be permanently patched on zone 3? Or will they expand the Uhf repeaters

I just don't think The MBTA can Get Phase 2 down here in time...Little more for the State Police on the Acushnet Tower (Phase 2) Id say its going to be (Analog)& (P25 Phase 1) Smart net for a few More Years At least . The ProVoice is for the Green Line and Such in the Boston Metro Area.
My guess the the MBTA Police are going to Be UHF-T band and Patched to Zone 3 down Here. Keolis ( MBTA ) Trains Will Be On
ARR 41 160.725 and MA Coastal will Be on ARR 21 ( 160.425 for the cape and Maybe on CH41 In New Bedford ? The MBTA
Construction Is On the ICE DMR sites Talk Group(788) or something like that - Old Colony Dispatch is going to have thier Plates loaded at this table.

This is going to be Insteresting how it all sorts out for The State with this Upgrade.

Pete N1EXA

 

[N1EXA]

Hey KD1KVD
Is ARR Ch41 still going to be used for New Bedford Dispatch for Keolis and What Happens to MA Coastal on CH41 ?

N1EXA Pete

KB1KVD to be correct
What Im talking about is the clash between Keolis ( MBTA) and MA Coastal RR.. Old Colony will Be Dispatch for the MBTA but where
Does MA Coastal Stop Now being Dispatched on ARR 21 and Jump to ARR41 ?

Pete N1EXA

 

[garys]

"An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications."

I was just looking for a small wire cup brush that's used in a drill the other day. I know I have one in my basement somewhere, I couldn't find it and they're cheap enough so I bought a new one at Depot yesterday. I know my other one is going to turn up any day now 😅 That really does always happen.

I'm still looking for the utility knife I lost about three weeks ago!

I hear you on the timeline. It's just like construction projects. Always over budget and never on schedule

 

[kb1kvd]

Hey KD1KVD
Is ARR Ch41 still going to be used for New Bedford Dispatch for Keolis and What Happens to MA Coastal on CH41 ?

N1EXA Pete

The plan is to expand AAR 041 (160.725) which is the Old Colony dispatch down to Fall River and New Bedford. Which this would mean that Mass Coastal would have to jump over to AAR 041 in order to talk to the dispatcher. There is talk on whether or not we're going to make a seperate dispatch desk to handle South Coast rail alone or if we're just add to the new dispatch position that is currently being built.

To answer the big question. Once South Coast rail starts up it will be AAR 041 from cabot to the bunter at New Bedford and Fall River. Mass Coastal AAR 021 will be only used Cotley Jct to Boro, Bay to Hyannis, and Mans to Fram . That doesn't stop Mass Coastal from using AAR 21 down in Fall River and New Bedford, they could use the channel as a switching portable use only channel on that section of the railroad. I would have to see what the special instruction would be regarding if they would even do that. AAR 041 is set in stone to be the road channel for the entire south coast rail.

 

[N1EXA]

To KB1KVD

Now that we have the ARR channels explained along with the MBTA UHF talk Groups patched to Zone 3 Who Is on
the Kingston ICE DMR System on Talk Group 778 . Seems they has a Missing RR car this morning and Ive also had talk
on Engines ,Switches and Track use and A RR car derailing and using a crane to get the truck back on the track?
Is this The MBTA ( Keolis) or MA Coastal RR or another operator on the the DMR System?
This seems to be the Middleboro Train Yard Operations but expanding down to Fall River and New Bedford Too!

Pete N1EXA

 

[garys]

778 is being used by the construction company doing the Middleboro section of the Old Colony expansion South Coast Rail | Projects | MBTA

Other Talk Groups in use are 777, 779, and maybe 776. You can receive them on Site 28 and maybe 27. Probably others that are out of my range as well.

 

[N1EXA]

778 is being used by the construction company doing the Middleboro section of the Old Colony expansion South Coast Rail | Projects | MBTA

Other Talk Groups in use are 777, 779, and maybe 776. You can receive them on Site 28 and maybe 27. Probably others that are out of my range as well.

Garys
Ok - Great- I'm finding the conversations to be not using a Formatted Platform like the Old Colony Dispatch or MA Coastal's dispatch but
more General RR talk - Would explain that its RR Construction Workers.

Pete N1EXA