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- Thread starter jay427
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These are position reports. Since aircraft are not tracked by radar over the ocean, they make HF position reports. An aircraft will call in its position and the time, followed by it's next estimated position, followed by another position. Example..."American 62 position CHAMP, estimating BURTT 0015, 40 North 60 West is next." This tell the radio operator the path of the aircraft...the operator will relay the positions to ATC.
You will also hear Oceanic clearances. NY ATC will relay a clearance for an aircraft, telling it positions, what airway to use, flight level, and speed.
HF aircraft monitoring is a lot of fun, and there are some tracking programs that you can use to track the aircraft.
Hope this answers your question...have fun!
You will also hear Oceanic clearances. NY ATC will relay a clearance for an aircraft, telling it positions, what airway to use, flight level, and speed.
HF aircraft monitoring is a lot of fun, and there are some tracking programs that you can use to track the aircraft.
Hope this answers your question...have fun!
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AEMTKieran is exactly right, the format for an aircraft crossing a position fix in a non-radar controlled, (ie. Transatlantic, Transpacific) area is. Position the Aircraft just crossed and time, Next position and expected time of arrival, and the position expected after that or clearance limit if giving one, and finally any assistance or further information needed.
How offten should I here the same plane check in, every 1hour or so many miles?
AEMTKieran, when you refer to "American 62 position CHAMP, estimating BURTT 0015, 40 North 60 West is next."
I assume CHAMP and BURTT are goiing to be coordinates?
AEMTKieran, when you refer to "American 62 position CHAMP, estimating BURTT 0015, 40 North 60 West is next."
I assume CHAMP and BURTT are goiing to be coordinates?
CSL126
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CHAMP and BURTT are probably intersections, but i'll leave that to the experts.
I used them as examples, but yes, CHAMP and BURTT are what are called waypoints. Instead of using numbered coordinates, pilots use named waypoints instead. CHAMP and BURTT are heard frequently on the Caribbean HF frequencies. Most transatlantic flights will use numeric coordinates, i.e. 50 North 60 West, 50 North 50 West, etc.
Aircraft will check in at each reported time. In the example I gave, American 62 reported BURTT at 0015. Therefore, American 62 will check in again when it arrives at BURTT, and also give a new position report for the next two waypoints.
Complicated, I know...but once you get into it, it's really not that bad.
Aircraft will check in at each reported time. In the example I gave, American 62 reported BURTT at 0015. Therefore, American 62 will check in again when it arrives at BURTT, and also give a new position report for the next two waypoints.
Complicated, I know...but once you get into it, it's really not that bad.
Furthermore, to take advantage of winds aloft, NAT and PACOT tracks are changed every day via NOTAM! So one NAT track one day could be in a completely different spot the next day based on the weather conditions. Go to the DINS NOTAMS website and click on "North Atlantic Tracks" or "Pacific Tracks." This is the exact same information the international airline pilots are looking at before the flight. https://www.notams.jcs.mil/
You'll see something like this:
This is NAT Track Uniform for today. It goes via the route DOTTY. CRONO. 52N50. 53N40. 54N30. 55N20. RESNO. NIBOG. NURSI... It is available for eastbound flights at FL320, 330, 340, 350, 360, 370, 380, 390 and 400. Westbound flightlevels are NIL, meaning it's not available for westbound aircraft from europe, only eastbound aircraft from the US. Here's how a position report (just starting the track at DOTTY) would sound:
"Gander United 21, position DOTTY at 0353z, estimating CRONO at 0421z, 52 North 50 West is next."
Alternatively, here's a westbound track from europe back to the US. It's Track Alpha.
If you want to identify a fix you heard on the position report, read the NOTAM page for the day you're listening and see if you can recognize it... you'll then have a list of the aircraft's route of flight and be able to tell exactly where they are. You can apply this to fixes (or intersections or waypoints you should think of them as the same thing for all practical purposes... imaginary points in the sky
) you hear listening to your local ATC, and determine their exact location by going to http://www.airnav.com/airspace/fix/. It will be a little more difficult because every fix is 5 letters long, so you'll have to write down what you think the controller said and then find the closest written approximation, and see if it's local. Haha.
Hope that helped,
-Inigo
You'll see something like this:
This is NAT Track Uniform for today. It goes via the route DOTTY. CRONO. 52N50. 53N40. 54N30. 55N20. RESNO. NIBOG. NURSI... It is available for eastbound flights at FL320, 330, 340, 350, 360, 370, 380, 390 and 400. Westbound flightlevels are NIL, meaning it's not available for westbound aircraft from europe, only eastbound aircraft from the US. Here's how a position report (just starting the track at DOTTY) would sound:
"Gander United 21, position DOTTY at 0353z, estimating CRONO at 0421z, 52 North 50 West is next."
Alternatively, here's a westbound track from europe back to the US. It's Track Alpha.
If you want to identify a fix you heard on the position report, read the NOTAM page for the day you're listening and see if you can recognize it... you'll then have a list of the aircraft's route of flight and be able to tell exactly where they are. You can apply this to fixes (or intersections or waypoints you should think of them as the same thing for all practical purposes... imaginary points in the sky
) you hear listening to your local ATC, and determine their exact location by going to http://www.airnav.com/airspace/fix/. It will be a little more difficult because every fix is 5 letters long, so you'll have to write down what you think the controller said and then find the closest written approximation, and see if it's local. Haha.Hope that helped,
-Inigo
Thanks all
This is a fair amount of info to digest, but thats what makes it fun.
I was looking at the fixed postion's and it appers they have a ton that are named. One would think they have enough pre assiged names/waypoints thats' all they would need to use to give the loaction.
I'm a liitle confused yet but it is making more sense.
Will try to put what I learned here to practice.
Thanks again
Jay
This is a fair amount of info to digest, but thats what makes it fun.
I was looking at the fixed postion's and it appers they have a ton that are named. One would think they have enough pre assiged names/waypoints thats' all they would need to use to give the loaction.
I'm a liitle confused yet but it is making more sense.
Will try to put what I learned here to practice.
Thanks again
Jay
They don't name the NAT coordinates because they get changed every day. Those published 5-letter fixes stay in one spot.
-Inigo
-Inigo
Thanks for the notam website...I didn't know about that, though I recognize some of the waypoints from monitoring and decoding ACARS. That put a lot of things together for me!
The tone are for paging. The flight crew doesn't monitor the HF frequenices continuously because the atmospheric noise is very fatiguing. The aircraft receiver is actually in AM mode when in standby because the tolerances for the paging tones is very tight. The same goes for the paging transmitter, it is in AM mode but I suspect that it is carrier plus the upper sideband rather than full AM. When they swtich to voice mode,the transmitter and receiver go to USB mode.
Those are SELCAL codes, unique to each aircraft. If you like logging aircraft, this is the most important piece of information to log. SELCAL codes are four letters, and if you use AirNav's SELCAL decoder, you can identify which aircraft is being used.
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