Miami-Beach P25 Phase II (011.46F77)

[Kitn1mcc]

gonna suck not being able to monitor the pd when i go to the beach in march. i may do what APX8000 did tho

 

[JimD56]

The Miami Beach System, like Coral Gables is very weak. We can't get it at all on the central to west side of Miami-Dade County. Not at my firehouse or on the truck while on the road, once we hit downtown Miami and the causeway it perks up.

 

[rivermersey]

The City of Miami Beach is under contract with Harris Corporation to replace the Public Safety Radio System with a state-of-the-art Project-25 Compliant (P25) land mobile radio system. The new system will have all the necessary features required by modern, sophisticated police and fire departments, including: over-the-air-reprogramming; over-the-air rekeying ; AES 256 encryption; and most important, seamless roaming connectivity for personnel once they leave the FCC-authorized radio frequency geographical footprint for the City of Miami Beach. This roaming will be accomplished by leveraging the infrastructure of other area governmental entities (City of Miami, Miami Dade County, Coral Gables, etc.), who are also on the Harris System. This county-wide capacity to interoperate radio systems is considered a vital additional advantage of the new system and essential to public safety of the community, as well as our police officers and firefighters. www.GOMB2018.co

The completion of this project marks a significant upgrade to the city's critical communications network that is used by more than 1,000 first responders and public safety officers in the Police, Fire, Ocean Rescue, Code Enforcement, and Parking departments. As the city transitions away from the outdated P16 Motorola system last upgraded in 2003, it is joining a large group of local municipalities (including Miami-Dade County, City of Miami, Coral Gables and Aventura, among others) who have adopted the modern L3Harris Corporation's digital P25 technology. The new public safety radio system provides Miami Beach first responders with expanded radio coverage via seamless roaming capabilities, interoperable communications to connect with other agencies and interjurisdictional partners, AES 256 encryption to enhance the safety of personnel and the public by protecting sensitive information, and unified applications to integrate voice and data capabilities. At this time, 597 handheld L3Harris Corporation radios have been assigned and personnel trained, 160 vehicle radios have been installed, all 10 radio/microwave antenna infrastructure sites have been activated and tested . The Parking and Code Compliance Departments transitioned to the new system on November 3rd and November 8th respectively. The remaining scheduled launch dates of the new system, by department, are as follows: • Police: November 29, 2021 • Ocean Rescue: December 6, 2021 (Tentative) • Fire: December 13, 2021 (Tentative)

 

[rivermersey]

The completion of this project marks a significant upgrade to the city's critical communications network that is used by more than 1,000 first responders and public safety officers in the Police, Fire, Ocean Rescue, Code Enforcement, and Parking departments. As the city transitions away from the outdated P16 Motorola system last upgraded in 2003, it is joining a large group of local municipalities (including Miami-Dade County, City of Miami, Coral Gables and Aventura, among others) who have adopted the modern L3Harris Corporation's digital P25 technology. The new public safety radio system provides Miami Beach first responders with expanded radio coverage via seamless roaming capabilities, interoperable communications to connect with other agencies and interjurisdictional partners, AES 256 encryption to enhance the safety of personnel and the public by protecting sensitive information, and unified applications to integrate voice and data capabilities. At this time, 597 handheld L3Harris Corporation radios have been assigned and personnel trained, 160 vehicle radios have been installed, all 10 radio/microwave antenna infrastructure sites have been activated and tested . The Parking and Code Compliance Departments transitioned to the new system on November 3rd and November 8th respectively. The remaining scheduled launch dates of the new system, by department, are as follows: • Police: November 29, 2021 • Ocean Rescue: December 6, 2021 (Tentative) • Fire: December 13, 2021 (Tentative)

The new system will have all the necessary features required by modern, sophisticated police and fire departments, including: over-the-air-reprogramming; over-the-air rekeying ; AES 256 encryption; and most important, seamless roaming connectivity for personnel once they leave the FCC-authorized radio frequency geographical footprint for the City of Miami Beach. This roaming will be accomplished by leveraging the infrastructure of other area governmental entities (City of Miami, Miami Dade County, Coral Gables, etc.), who are also on the Harris System. This county-wide capacity to interoperate radio systems is considered a vital additional advantage of the new system and essential to public safety of the community, as well as our police officers and firefighters.

 

[JimD56]

NO Fire Depts in Miami-Dade County, regardless of the municipality or the "newness" of the system are Encrypted, and there are no plans in the future to Encrypt "Normal Dispatch and Fireground Channels". There are FD "Special Ops" Channels that are "available for use" as Encrypted, but if I need to use one of those "turn on your TV".

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

NO Fire Depts in Miami-Dade County, regardless of the municipality or the "newness" of the system are Encrypted, and there are no plans in the future to Encrypt "Normal Dispatch and Fireground Channels". There are FD "Special Ops" Channels that are "available for use" as Encrypted, but if I need to use one of those "turn on your TV".

As far as I recall, Miami Dade Fire Rescue is still using analog UHF conventional. They had quite the aversion to digital trunking from first experiences.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The Miami Beach System, like Coral Gables is very weak. We can't get it at all on the central to west side of Miami-Dade County. Not at my firehouse or on the truck while on the road, once we hit downtown Miami and the causeway it perks up.

The Coral Gables system is NPSPAC and the antennas are designed to keep signals confined and concentrated within City limits, Miami Beach requires in building penetration for high rises along the north south corridors, so likewise they don't sacrifice signals outside city limits.

 

[JimD56]

As far as I recall, Miami Dade Fire Rescue is still using analog UHF conventional. They had quite the aversion to digital trunking from first experiences.

YES!! I am the Miami-Dade System and the 800mhz GE/Erricson EDACS they tried to sell us on in 1999-2000 absolutely sucked. Like FDNY and LA County FD, we will be ANALOG forever.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

YES!! I am the Miami-Dade System and the 800mhz GE/Erricson EDACS they tried to sell us on in 1999-2000 absolutely sucked. Like FDNY and LA County FD, we will be ANALOG forever.

If I recall, (and I should) the original contract called for AEGIS digital voice. It performed so terribly given the extreme simulcast environment (and latency on busy dispatch channels) that the County bargained a discount to allow that feature to be deleted from contract. It left the County in the position of having to accept a marginally performing analog simulcast system.

 

[JimD56]

If I recall, (and I should) the original contract called for AEGIS digital voice. It performed so terribly given the extreme simulcast environment (and latency on busy dispatch channels) that the County bargained a discount to allow that feature to be deleted from contract. It left the County in the position of having to accept a marginally performing analog simulcast system.

Yup that's correct and after upgrades, we now have a great UHF 450-460mhz system with no dead spots and 11 antennas county-wide. It's not simulcast as different antennas carry different dispatch and fireground frequencies. On my issued dual-band APX I can also switch over to the other agencies' fire department 700-800mhz simulcast system, and the Battalion Chiefs have PD unlocked on their APX's.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

i love the miami dade uhf system so easy to monitor

 

[julieskis1310]

I am a Miami Beach local who received the Uniden BCD436HP for Christmas. I am new to the radio hobby and I'm still trying to learn how to use this radio. I have been able to successfully add the Miami Beach Public Safety channels to my favorites but I've noticed I only hear the Fire/Rescue channels. I have not been able to hear any of the police, beach patrol, or other channels. I have added both the analog and digital channels. Does anyone know why this is? I have read posts saying they are encrypted, not encrypted... seems like a lot of inconsistent information. Any information or help with this is greatly appreciated. I can appreciate some of these channels should be private but there must be a channel for the public to access so they can be aware of safety concerns in the community.

 

[JimD56]

I am a Miami Beach local who received the Uniden BCD436HP for Christmas. I am new to the radio hobby and I'm still trying to learn how to use this radio. I have been able to successfully add the Miami Beach Public Safety channels to my favorites but I've noticed I only hear the Fire/Rescue channels. I have not been able to hear any of the police, beach patrol, or other channels. I have added both the analog and digital channels. Does anyone know why this is? I have read posts saying they are encrypted, not encrypted... seems like a lot of inconsistent information. Any information or help with this is greatly appreciated. I can appreciate some of these channels should be private but there must be a channel for the public to access so they can be aware of safety concerns in the community.

Police are Encrypted "E" on the new system. You will NOT hear them regardless of the scanner model.

 

[MDCOnScene]

TG 1305 is on the new P25 system and it's code compliance and they are unencrypted. So far tat's the only Miami Beach TG that I've picked up unencrypted.

3052 as mentioned above is Hialeah PD 1 Encrypted.

For a little bit today 1002 MBPD Dispatch S was in the clear for a few transmissions but otherwise encrypted all day.

A couple notes on monitoring the MB P25 system progress and switch over so far (over past couple of months)...

I have also noticed that TG 1002 (MBPD 1 South) goes clear when they patch with Miami (or maybe Miami-Dade) 65xxx TG listed on Miami system during patch and MBPD was clear on both Miami and MB system.. Not sure if this is intended or not. I have never heard 1003 (MBPD 2 South) in the clear.

This week I was told by an internal source at MBFD that Fire switching over has been further delayed due to procurement issues of portables as well as coverage concerns in north part of the city. Also said PD has already been complaining about coverage issues (portables not being received by repeater input) while at the NEST (north beach substation). So for now MBFD is still running on the Motorola Trunked Smartnet II system as the analog system is still co-existing and transmitting along side the Harris P25 (which btw is what Harris is blaming for portable RX problems at the Park View site). Sounds like 2006 all over again for those that remember that last time MB tried to go digital.

It's kinda of comical that Miami Beach just can't seem to ever get a radio system right. Despite Miami and Hialeah seamlessly switching over from Motorola to Harris P25 systems MB is having issues.

 

[Ezra]

Hialeah has a talkgroup on the Miami Beach system?? Do they run a lot of bikini patrols as mutual aid or sumpin???

Hialeah, Miami City, and Miami beach call can roam across each other. Different talk groups, of course but you can hear City of Miami and Hialeah on the new Miami Beach system, I hear Miami Beach on the City of Miami system but don't hear any Miami Beach or city of Miami on the Hialeah system. So it seems they can set what each system shares with the others.

Also FYI Miami Beach typically hires Hialeah PD regularly for big events (memorial day weekend) so that may be a reason they have the patch.

 

[Ezra]

I am a Miami Beach local who received the Uniden BCD436HP for Christmas. I am new to the radio hobby and I'm still trying to learn how to use this radio. I have been able to successfully add the Miami Beach Public Safety channels to my favorites but I've noticed I only hear the Fire/Rescue channels. I have not been able to hear any of the police, beach patrol, or other channels. I have added both the analog and digital channels. Does anyone know why this is? I have read posts saying they are encrypted, not encrypted... seems like a lot of inconsistent information. Any information or help with this is greatly appreciated. I can appreciate some of these channels should be private but there must be a channel for the public to access so they can be aware of safety concerns in the community.

Since Miami Beach shifted in January 2022 to the new P25 system, everything but FD is on the new P25 system and all PD is encrypted. Code Compliance, Parking and Lifeguards are unencrypted on the new P25 system. Only when they are issuing BOLOs (Be on the lookout) those are unencrypted on the MBPD channels

FD is still analog on the old system, it's the only thing on the old system. It will probably shift to the new system but no one knows when.

I have both the BCD 436, BCD 536 and SDS 100. The 436/536 reception on P25 simulcast systems like the new MB P25 system isn't great. If you are only close to one simulcast site (edge of town) it receives fine but if you are between two simulcast sites (in the middle of town) the 436/536 struggles and you hear nothing. The new version, the SDS 100/200 resolves this problem. That is the same simulcast problem for MD County PD and Miami City PD/FD. So unfortunately, if you are a Miami Beach local, I'd seriously consider upgrading to the SDS 100 or 200.

 

[MDCOnScene]

A couple more updates on this system especially during the Miami Beach spring break period.

MBPD continues to have garbled voice issues during certain periods of time and they say the problems now are city wide (at first it was just on the north side of the city). I have heard excuses from it's due to interference from the analog system which is still running for fire to it's simulcast related to it's caused by encryption. PD is the only agency having the problems. The problem is audible if you monitor the PD channels when in the clear - many mobile/portable transmissions are repeated out of the system garbled. Although the encryption excuse really doesn't make sense based on my understanding of how Harris and P25 encryption work and the audio is still garbled in the clear (just they say not as much).

The problem has been so bad that dispatchers periodically TX in clear on TG1002 (MBP1 - SouthDispatch) and TG1003 (MBPD2 - NorthDispatch) while mobiles/portables remain encrypted (essentially BOLO mode).

Now over the past week I have heard everything go clear (including mobiles/portables) on TG1002 and TG1003 for multiple hour long periods (normally around shift changes). TG1004 (MBPD3 - SouthTac) and TG1005 (MBPD4 - NorthTac) were designed to always be encrypted also but due to interop encryption issues with patching they sometimes are also running in the clear.

During Spring Break the joint operability with agencies on the Dade County system has been a total mess also. Encryption between inter-system agencies has been a near total failure with TG1000 (MBPD - JointOps) being unusable.

As a workaround there are now a number of 12xx TGs for MBPD along with the system designed 631xx patch TGs that are now in the clear and are being used for inter-agency communication during spring break.

TG1004 is patched to TG1204 and can be heard in the clear (as a patch to a TG63174). So basically TG1004 (MBPD3 - SouthTac) is mostly in the clear for Spring Break (when it is being used by MBPD with inter-system agencies which is basically all of the PM shifts of spring break).

Needless to say Miami Beach PD must not thrilled with the new system and the Fire Department switchover has been postponed with no new date in sight.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

There should not be any problems with p25 simulcast, even with a scanner like 436/536 . The transmitter site seperation is minimal. I suspect there are microwave network problems. When there are very short paths the signal levels can be too high, distorting the QAM modulation. or it could be some other network problem raising the BER. I was involved with the first two system implementations, Analog then digital mixed mode CAI.

 

[lwvmobile]

Maybe if they hold their radios up and to the side slightly, it'll improve the signal performance.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Miami Dade County had some potential 3rd and 5th order IM mixes on their channels when I last was involved. It was surprising to me that these were permitted on the system and would explain past problems when the system was heavily loaded.