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Microphonics in VX-261

tmrva

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I am a 2-way radio dealer with a specific problem with a few radios that came in from a client for repair. At very low volume the radio (a Motorola VX-261-G7-5) performs fine. However when turning the volume up to a normal listening volume for a warehouse or industrial setting, the audio from the speaker causes a feedback loop with some component in the radio, causing screeching and distortion in the audio output. Using a headset or speaker-mic solves the problem but many customers just use the HT’s as stand-alone with no headset. Is there some way anyone in the profession knows to reliably dampen the vibration and prevent the oscillation and feedback from occurring?
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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I don't have specifics on that radio, but I have dealt with microphonics in others.

Motorola usually publishes field service bulletins and provides rework kits for problems such as these. Generally the radios work from the factory and become noisy with age.

Check common stuff like battery terminals for corrosion. These will get noisy and often the noise is scratchy transmit due to the current drain. But it could affect RX as well.

Next I would try tightening all the fasteners in the radio. There may be screws loose and any one of them can permit the internal parts to move. A shield cover may be loose or have poor grounding.

Then I would make sure the VCO steering line voltage is set within the proper voltage range, if not sometimes when at the limit, strange things will happen.

Failing that I would open the radio up and tap all the parts near the synthesizer circuits to see if any are sensitive. Beware, they will be. some that just naturally are.. Inject a strong unmodulated RF signal near full quieting when you test this way. Then get a small clean artists brush and touch all the components and covers to see if the fine touch alone causes noises to be heard in the speaker. Once you have localized the problem, it could be that there is cold solder, bad part or maybe a part just wants some silicone adhesive (non corrosive type) bonding it down.
 

KevinC

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It's odd that 2 different manufacturers are having the same issue...


Are you sure it isn't acoustic feedback?
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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It's odd that 2 different manufacturers are having the same issue...


Are you sure it isn't acoustic feedback?
Maybe his bench signal generator is microphonic? Or an open mike at the repeater?
 

tmrva

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RFI-EMI-GUY - Thanks for that contribution. My tech will be going through the radio again and we'll try to let you know if your suggestions result in a solution for both the Kenwood Radios AND the one Vertex radio.
Kevin - it is acoustic feedback - like when a microphone in a PA system is placed too close to the speakers. I had experienced this phenomenon with several Kenwood radios in the past, and using freeze spray or other troubleshooting techniques has allowed my tech to identify the problem component, but attempts to dampen it with ordinary materials (such as a piece of foam adhered to the component) do not seem to work. This example is the very first Vertex-Standard/Motorola radio I have ever experienced this issue with.
Using physical dampening seems like the most economical way to try to solve the issue when replacing the component is the best method but it frequently has been the CPU that is making the mischief. At that point, it is typically cheaper to scrap a 7-year old radio rather than trying to replace the CPU. My "Dream solution" would be a spray foam that one could coat all the PCB components with, dampening all vibration and hopefully ending the oscillation nightmare. Thank you everyone for your contributions.
 

tmrva

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By the way, it's not the test gear - it does it all by itself, miles away from the test bench. And it's not anything like an open mic at the repeater because these are all on-site radios, operating on simplex only.
 

ramal121

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The radio's VCO consists of its discrete components in addition to the evironment that surrounds it. This includes shields and PCB ground planes. When a radio is new and solid everything works great. But over time hardware loosens, mechanical connections become fouled by contaminates or corrosion or wear. When this happens manipulation of a bad junction will cause the VCO to react and jump around slightly. A speaker turned up high enough will vibrate the innards and modulate the VCO. This is detected like a normal FM signal and goes through the audio chain. There is your feedback that causes that screaming howling noise. Of course the squelch needs to be open for this to occur.

I find pads to reduce vibration are pretty much useless. Sometimes a component like a coil will quiet down a little with a dab of hot glue to pot it. The rework kits as mentioned usually are modified grounding straps and fingers and never hurt.

When I get a real tough dog I go all in. I remove the RF board and scrub all grounding lands and case posts with contact cleaner. Same with removeable shields and finger stock etc. Then maybe do the pencil eraser thing to shine things up. I then apply some Stabilent 22 to these mechanical junctions (my secret weapon). Reassemble and make sure everything is secure and tight.

That takes care a lot of these type of issues. By the way, transmit can be affected too. Hold a portable in both hands and transmit. Twist and bend the radio and listen for the crunchies as you torque on it. If it gets bad it can affect your transmit under normal banging around.

 
Last edited:

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Dec 22, 2013
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The radio's VCO consists of its discrete components in addition to the evironment that surrounds it. This includes shields and PCB ground planes. When a radio is new and solid everything works great. But over time hardware loosens, mechanical connections become fouled by contaminates or corrosion or wear. When this happens manipulation of a bad junction will cause the VCO to react and jump around slightly. A speaker turned up high enough will vibrate the innards and modulate the VCO. This is detected like a normal FM signal and goes through the audio chain. There is your feedback that causes that screaming howling noise. Of course the squelch needs to be open for this to occur.

I find pads to reduce vibration are pretty much useless. Sometimes a component like a coil will quiet down a little with a dab of hot glue to pot it. The rework kits as mentioned usually are modified grounding straps and fingers and never hurt.

When I get a real tough dog I go all in. I remove the RF board and scrub all grounding lands and case posts with contact cleaner. Same with removeable shields and finger stock etc. Then maybe do the pencil eraser thing to shine things up. I then apply some Stabilent 22 to these mechanical junctions (my secret weapon). Reassemble and make sure everything is secure and tight.

That takes care a lot of these type of issues. By the way, transmit can be affected too. Hold a portable in both hands and transmit. Twist and bend the radio and listen for the crunchies as you torque on it. If it gets bad it can affect your transmit under normal banging around.

I had an MX300-S and found that if while transmitting, I tapped the top of the Helical antenna, the VCO would react to circulating currents would and distort the CTCSS tone.
 

AM909

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In the various Vertex radios, there is usually either hot glue or padding around the 2nd IF ceramic filter(s) and/or discriminator. Sometimes, the padding goes missing or gets mis-positioned. It can also be the filter or, less often, the discriminator, that fails. Make sure the speaker is secure.

I haven't seen the problem in an NX-33xx, but there's a cushion between it and the holder and two stickers that go on top of it that are probably important (see the exploded diagram).

Seems like a failing volume cotrol could feed back the audio, too.
 
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