Happy 4th Everybody!
Mid-Atlantic Digital Radio network - Connect Plus system 141
- Thread starter BM82557
- Start date
Voyager, I just want to say a public thank you for your contribution. I don't know if I completely understand how you compiled this network map. Were all of these LCNs and repeater numbers determined by scouting out the areas or getting beam vectors with DSDPlus? I'm completely impressed, just want to understand how you covered such a large area. I have been considering a large-scale drive with a direction finder and DSDPlus and it seems that you have already done the hard labor 
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
I wouldn't be overly impressed with what he posted, as it looks like nothing more than a dump of a Con+ codeplug that receives OTA updates to the frequency file, which contains all sites and repeaters and is stored in the option board.
So as far as him "covering a large area" by traveling around and scoping stuff out...not so much. He simply read a radio that is provisioned on the system and posted the contents of the codeplug.
Note that he has not identified the location of any of the sites, which makes sense since the site names are not aliased in the Con+ frequency file; it only contains the Site #, and for each repeater at the site the RX/TX frequencies, the color code, and which repeaters are designated as control channel capable.
Not that it can't be helpful, but it's certainly not confirmed and he certainly did not go to extremes to personally gather the info by scouting out all of the sites.
So as far as him "covering a large area" by traveling around and scoping stuff out...not so much. He simply read a radio that is provisioned on the system and posted the contents of the codeplug.
Note that he has not identified the location of any of the sites, which makes sense since the site names are not aliased in the Con+ frequency file; it only contains the Site #, and for each repeater at the site the RX/TX frequencies, the color code, and which repeaters are designated as control channel capable.
Not that it can't be helpful, but it's certainly not confirmed and he certainly did not go to extremes to personally gather the info by scouting out all of the sites.
And He did say not all are even equipped, just possible future provisioning. It helps greatly nontheless.
updated map:
http://www.midatlanticdrn.com/uploads/4/7/8/7/47876343/mid-atlantic_digital_system_overlay.pdf
more maps here:
Coverage Maps
updated map:
http://www.midatlanticdrn.com/uploads/4/7/8/7/47876343/mid-atlantic_digital_system_overlay.pdf
more maps here:
Coverage Maps
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After re-reading Voyager's post, I think he has taken great care to explain that he is not promoting direct insertion of the radio data into the database, and appreciate his desire to keep it accurate. I'm very thankful to have that network map as a reference in confirming frequencies and programming of sites on the network.
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I posted the repeater map to the wiki: PA Digital Radio Network - The RadioReference Wiki
This system is the BorgNet
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• Dedicated Control Channel
• Up To 250 Sites
• Up To 15 Repeaters/Site
• Up To 420 Repeaters/
System
• Up To 3000** Users/Site
• Up to 1600 Contacts/
System
• Automatic Roaming
• Private Call
• Group Call
• Multi-Group Call
• Site All Call
• Network All Call
• Text Messaging
• GPS Location-Reporting
• Inbound/Outbound
Telephone Calls
• Secure Authentication
• Resilient Architecture
• Dispatch Console (Optional)
250 sites or 420 repeaters total in the system.... what number will this system max out first.... looks like repeaters...
• Up To 250 Sites
• Up To 15 Repeaters/Site
• Up To 420 Repeaters/
System
• Up To 3000** Users/Site
• Up to 1600 Contacts/
System
• Automatic Roaming
• Private Call
• Group Call
• Multi-Group Call
• Site All Call
• Network All Call
• Text Messaging
• GPS Location-Reporting
• Inbound/Outbound
Telephone Calls
• Secure Authentication
• Resilient Architecture
• Dispatch Console (Optional)
250 sites or 420 repeaters total in the system.... what number will this system max out first.... looks like repeaters...
Maybe not. If one just quickly glances at the network map, it might seem that way. But the network map is not an indication of what repeaters actually exist and are active at a given site. It's a representation of what a particular repeater's frequency/LCN/DCC information would be if it did exist and was turned on.
Only people monitoring the sites [with something like DSDPlus] will know what LCNs are actually active. Well, I guess that depending upon what scanner somebody is using, they might be able to tell [based upon frequency showing up display] what repeater are active as well. But mostly one would do that with ease by just monitoring the CC with DSDPlus.
Mike
I didn't know there was a requirement to go through extremes. If the sysadmin walked up to you with a 100% accurate representation of the current state of the system, I'm betting you would add 100% of the information without further thought. You would have done zero work obtaining that information, but a lot of people would be impressed that you got the data, and would be grateful for said data.
I think the same applies here. Just because Voyager didn't have to spend countless hours and dollars, and travel 1000s of miles around PA to confirm sites, the network map he captured goes a long way in confirming the majority of sites to the required extent.
Can / should we add sites to the DB that haven't been confirmed online? No. Can / should we add every LCN from the map to a site that is confirmed online? No. But, we can update the names / locations / FCC licenses for any existing sites shown in the DB as well as add any "unconfirmed LCNs" from the wiki that match up with the network map for the same site.
And I find this fact exciting -- I could reference the network map in the wiki and program every site listed. And then I could travel around Pennsylvania and could hear everything there is to hear currently on the MADRN off of whatever sites I happen to be in the vicinity of. As of this writing, us scanner listeners could not do that without the repeater map.
IMO, the value of the network map is YUUUGE. Yes, it could change next week, or tomorrow, but it probably won't. But, the same applies to the system itself.
Mike
PS: Voyager also is one of the first people to post of the existence of System 141, from the Western PA side, and has confirmed quite a number of sites the down and dirty way.
I completely agree that getting this kind of information is somewhat rare and particularly accurate. I also agree that it cannot be added straightly to the database, but I intend to program my scanner with this list, and will use it as a quick reference in confirming any other sites I happen to be around.
Does this system place any limits on roaming or does it automatically work for any user? I know that some kinds of networks (I believe the P25/Motorola networks) require users to have specific access to sites. Does anyone know if any user can roam to any site on this network freely?
Hello,
The way that I dealt with a DMR Network Frequency file or OTA transmission is to put the information in a wiki page.
Telepath Corporation Frequency Order and Color Code List - The RadioReference Wiki
A site in the file has all the repeater items filled with information, mostly with obvious defaults. I have seen files where the programmer has left junk frequencies in, some seem like the residue from copy and paste operations. This causes no problem for a radio as the site controller will never assign those repeaters. So I would confirm any information before putting it in the RRDB.
There are a number of options for roaming on a per radio basis. For example, it is possible to set a site lock in the radio's codeplug so a user can be locked to using only one site.
73 Eric
The way that I dealt with a DMR Network Frequency file or OTA transmission is to put the information in a wiki page.
Telepath Corporation Frequency Order and Color Code List - The RadioReference Wiki
A site in the file has all the repeater items filled with information, mostly with obvious defaults. I have seen files where the programmer has left junk frequencies in, some seem like the residue from copy and paste operations. This causes no problem for a radio as the site controller will never assign those repeaters. So I would confirm any information before putting it in the RRDB.
There are a number of options for roaming on a per radio basis. For example, it is possible to set a site lock in the radio's codeplug so a user can be locked to using only one site.
73 Eric
Septa3371CSX1
Member
If it helps any I have site neighbours for 17 and 22 that might help in pinpointing their locations. I posted before in this thread when I first found them but I'll list them again to refresh memories.
Site 17 I have the neighbours listed as sites 4, 8, 11, and 22. I have 454.200 listed as the CC.
Site 22 I have the neighbours listed as sites 2, 5, 6, 11, and 17. I have 454.2625 listed as the CC.
Those neighbour lists put site 17 somewhere in southern York or southern Lancaster County and place site 22 somewhere around Lancaster City (which I believe we have confirmed).
Site 17 I have the neighbours listed as sites 4, 8, 11, and 22. I have 454.200 listed as the CC.
Site 22 I have the neighbours listed as sites 2, 5, 6, 11, and 17. I have 454.2625 listed as the CC.
Those neighbour lists put site 17 somewhere in southern York or southern Lancaster County and place site 22 somewhere around Lancaster City (which I believe we have confirmed).
What makes some of the tracking difficult, when based upon neighbors, is the fact that much of the neighbor information that has been gathered since day #1 is information that was valid when there were far fewer sites. As new sites come alive around a particular site, a given site's neighbor list [in reality] changes, even though somebody may forget to update the neighbors list at a site.
For instance, in the DB, site 14 (Concordville) lists Site 13 as a neighbor. But if you look on a map of currently known sites and look around Concordville, all of the neighbors are already identified and none are site 13.
Sure, that could mean that on my map I failed to find a license, but it could also mean that the neighbor list for Concordville is reflecting a much earlier state of the system when much of the current surrounding sites weren't live. And if that were the case, then an old neighbor list could reflect neighbors 100 miles away.
So maybe a good thing for people to do [at least those who can], is to attempt to gather an updated site neighbor list from every site you can monitor. If we do that and collect that information, it can help pinpoint some of the other sites that may be online.
So if anybody reading this has DSPlus and can capture the neighbor list of sites around them that have a quality signal and post the results (or even add them in the wiki), that would be a good thing. I can add a section in the wiki for adding neighbor lists to sites if that makes it easy for anyone.
Mike
For instance, in the DB, site 14 (Concordville) lists Site 13 as a neighbor. But if you look on a map of currently known sites and look around Concordville, all of the neighbors are already identified and none are site 13.
Sure, that could mean that on my map I failed to find a license, but it could also mean that the neighbor list for Concordville is reflecting a much earlier state of the system when much of the current surrounding sites weren't live. And if that were the case, then an old neighbor list could reflect neighbors 100 miles away.
So maybe a good thing for people to do [at least those who can], is to attempt to gather an updated site neighbor list from every site you can monitor. If we do that and collect that information, it can help pinpoint some of the other sites that may be online.
So if anybody reading this has DSPlus and can capture the neighbor list of sites around them that have a quality signal and post the results (or even add them in the wiki), that would be a good thing. I can add a section in the wiki for adding neighbor lists to sites if that makes it easy for anyone.
Mike
The wiki has unconfirmed LCNs for various sites. The network map can be cross-referenced to determine the validity of the entries in the wiki and confirm LCNs in many cases. Below is a list of sites listed in the wiki with unconfirmed LCNs, as well as those LCNs that now can be confirmed thanks to the network map.
You can anticipate seeing these [now] confirmed LCNs added to the respective sites and then removed from the wiki. In some cases the confirmed LCN is already listed in the DB and the corresponding entry in the wiki will be removed.
Wiki lists:
Site 2 (Cornwall) - unconfirmed LCN 454.2437 (actual 454.25)
- network map indicates:
454.25 LCN 5
Site 3 (Malvern) - unconfirmed LCN 452.875
- network map indicates:
452.875 LCN 5
Site 5 (Honeybrook) - Problems with wiki data
Site 6 (New Holland) - Problems with wiki data
Site 7 (Harrisburg South) - unconfirmed LCNs 452.3, 461.875
- network map indicates:
452.3 LCN 4
461.875 LCN 2
Site 10 (Summit Station) - unconfirmed LCNs 451.6, 464.175
- network map indicates:
451.6 LCN 1
464.175 LCN 4
Site 14 (Concordville) - unconfirmed LCNs 451.5, 451.875
- network map indicates:
451.5 LCN 5
451.875 LCN 4
Site 15 (Reading) - unconfirmed LCN 461.175
- network map indicates:
461.175 LCN 3
Site 16 (Allentown) - unconfirmed LCN 462.1
- network map indicates:
462.1 LCN 2
Site 17 (Red Lion) - unconfirmed 454.1937
- 454.1937 is actually 454.200 - already in DB
- should be removed from wiki
Site 18: (Philadelphia) - unconfirmed 451.875, 452.5625, 461.525, 464.025
- network map indicates:
451.875 LCN 3
452.5625 LCN 8
461.525 LCN 5
464.025 LCN 4
Site 20 (Lewistown) - unconfirmed 463.575
- network map indicates:
463.575 LCN 3
Site 23 (Newport) - unconfirmed 451.95
- network map indicates:
451.95 LCN 2
Site 45 (Boyertown) - unconfirmed 454.25
- network map indicates:
454.25 LCN 1
You can anticipate seeing these [now] confirmed LCNs added to the respective sites and then removed from the wiki. In some cases the confirmed LCN is already listed in the DB and the corresponding entry in the wiki will be removed.
Wiki lists:
Site 2 (Cornwall) - unconfirmed LCN 454.2437 (actual 454.25)
- network map indicates:
454.25 LCN 5
Site 3 (Malvern) - unconfirmed LCN 452.875
- network map indicates:
452.875 LCN 5
Site 5 (Honeybrook) - Problems with wiki data
Site 6 (New Holland) - Problems with wiki data
Site 7 (Harrisburg South) - unconfirmed LCNs 452.3, 461.875
- network map indicates:
452.3 LCN 4
461.875 LCN 2
Site 10 (Summit Station) - unconfirmed LCNs 451.6, 464.175
- network map indicates:
451.6 LCN 1
464.175 LCN 4
Site 14 (Concordville) - unconfirmed LCNs 451.5, 451.875
- network map indicates:
451.5 LCN 5
451.875 LCN 4
Site 15 (Reading) - unconfirmed LCN 461.175
- network map indicates:
461.175 LCN 3
Site 16 (Allentown) - unconfirmed LCN 462.1
- network map indicates:
462.1 LCN 2
Site 17 (Red Lion) - unconfirmed 454.1937
- 454.1937 is actually 454.200 - already in DB
- should be removed from wiki
Site 18: (Philadelphia) - unconfirmed 451.875, 452.5625, 461.525, 464.025
- network map indicates:
451.875 LCN 3
452.5625 LCN 8
461.525 LCN 5
464.025 LCN 4
Site 20 (Lewistown) - unconfirmed 463.575
- network map indicates:
463.575 LCN 3
Site 23 (Newport) - unconfirmed 451.95
- network map indicates:
451.95 LCN 2
Site 45 (Boyertown) - unconfirmed 454.25
- network map indicates:
454.25 LCN 1
I believe site 13 is Quarryville (Gap) but I have not verified that yet..
These are the labeled sites from the most recent site map (In the order they were added to the map with the newest on top). I took the liberty of adding the site numbers where known.
?? Ogletown (?55?)
54 Church Hill
53 Salisbury
?? Mehoopany (?50?)
49 Egg Harbor City
52 Dagsboro
43 Waynesboro
?? Wilkes Barre (?48?)
46 Ashland
45 Boyertown
47 Hazelton
41 Pittston
25 Broadtop
30 State College
12 Northumberland
29 Rochester Mills
28 Johnstown
27 Blairsville
26 Altoona
23 Newport
24 Tannersville
20 Lewistown
19 Phillipsburg
21 Williamsport
18 Philadelphia
16 Allentown
14 Concordville
08 Hanover
02 Cornwall
11 Rawlinsville
17 Red Lion
09 Shippensburg
01 Harrisburg
04 York
?? Quarryville (?13?)
07 New Cumberland
03 Malvern
22 Lancaster City
05 Honeybrook
15 Reading
10 Summit Station
06 New Holland
Unidentifieds:
13
31
32
33
34
35
40
42
44
48
50
51
55
MID-ATLANTIC
Digital Radio Network
For Informational Purposes Only
These are the labeled sites from the most recent site map (In the order they were added to the map with the newest on top). I took the liberty of adding the site numbers where known.
?? Ogletown (?55?)
54 Church Hill
53 Salisbury
?? Mehoopany (?50?)
49 Egg Harbor City
52 Dagsboro
43 Waynesboro
?? Wilkes Barre (?48?)
46 Ashland
45 Boyertown
47 Hazelton
41 Pittston
25 Broadtop
30 State College
12 Northumberland
29 Rochester Mills
28 Johnstown
27 Blairsville
26 Altoona
23 Newport
24 Tannersville
20 Lewistown
19 Phillipsburg
21 Williamsport
18 Philadelphia
16 Allentown
14 Concordville
08 Hanover
02 Cornwall
11 Rawlinsville
17 Red Lion
09 Shippensburg
01 Harrisburg
04 York
?? Quarryville (?13?)
07 New Cumberland
03 Malvern
22 Lancaster City
05 Honeybrook
15 Reading
10 Summit Station
06 New Holland
Unidentifieds:
13
31
32
33
34
35
40
42
44
48
50
51
55
MID-ATLANTIC
Digital Radio Network
For Informational Purposes Only
Site 13 comes in loud and clear here in Lebanon County. Site 17 is Red Lion Boro. I had the freqs in my unknown dmr list as Red Lion Boro. School busses and school events. and york county Red Rabbit transit among users heard on those freqs.
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You're listing "Broadtop" and some others -- using names that others might not be familiar with in the DB. Certainly nothing wrong with that. But that brings me to pose the question [to everyone] again about standardizing on the naming conventions. FCC license locations, Centre-Com sites and PA/MADRN often call sites by different names. Somebody should make the decision what names are going to be used on sites and then stick with those names to the extent possible [meaning to the extent that coverage maps indicate the location].
Regarding some of your items in your list:
48 Mehoopany (WQUR273)
- frequencies match network map for site 48
Site 141-48
LCN = 1 TX = 454.21875 RX = 459.21875 DCC = 3 CC
LCN = 2 TX = 463.21250 RX = 468.21250 DCC = 3 CC
LCN = 3 TX = 464.13750 RX = 469.13750 DCC = 3 CC
LCN = 4 TX = 464.33750 RX = 469.33750 DCC = 3 CC
12 Northumberland (WPNT642)
I'm glad you listed it as Northumberland. DB is not correct.
55 Catawissa (FCC)
Catawissa is Site 55, per the pending FCC license app cross-referenced with Site 55 in the network map.
Site 141-55
LCN = 1 TX = 454.21875 RX = 459.21875 DCC = 3 CC
LCN = 2 TX = 463.61250 RX = 468.61250 DCC = 3 CC
LCN = 3 TX = 464.88750 RX = 469.88750 DCC = 3 CC
If you go by coverage maps [and the fact that some sites haven't been reported yet], it's likely that quite a few aren't online yet. Catawissa is probably one of them.
And, just as Pittson (on coverage maps) is likely Dupont (on FCC license), Wilkes-Barre (on coverage maps) is likely Bear Creek Twp (on FCC license). Pittston and WIlkes-Barre are 5 mi (or less) apart from Dupont and Bear Creek Twp respectively. Of course, Wilkes-Barre could be one of those unknown sites with lovely paging frequencies too. But I don't see Bear Creek listed on any of the maps.
Be careful about Ogletown. The PADRN map on the MADRN site shows Oglebay in NW coverage area, and the MADRN map on the MADRN site shows Olgetown farther south, near Windber [where Centre just happens to have a tower I believe]. That's why I'm suspecting that the Ogletown site is in Somerset Co and likely using all paging frequencies.
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For Site 13, do you happen to be using something like DSDPlus that lists site neighbors? Are you using an external antenna? When you say loud and clear, I'm guessing you're getting a pretty good signal on it.
Given that Site 13 is listed in the network map as having all paging freqs, I would imagine that wherever it is at there is not an actual YG license at the same location. I have no idea what your reach is from Lebanon Co - do you have any gut feelings about where Site 13 might be?
Mike
Uhf 450-470 mhz professional hi gain ant. On a 436. North Cornwall Twp. LEBANON PA
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