Millions in federal emergency communications funding lost, diverted

Status
Not open for further replies.

ko6jw_2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,129
Location
Santa Ynez, CA
9/11 is not the problem

I wish that we could get beyond the 9/11 example. The failures on 9/11 had to do with the loss of the buildings where many repeaters were located coupled with the FDNY's outmoded radio system and the general chaos on the whole event. The idea that this terrible disaster should be used by private companies to further their commercial interests is the real tragedy. Now huge amounts of money have been wasted and the goals of the project are not even close to being achieved.
 

MTS2000des

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
3,605
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
I wish that we could get beyond the 9/11 example. The failures on 9/11 had to do with the loss of the buildings where many repeaters were located coupled with the FDNY's outmoded radio system and the general chaos on the whole event. The idea that this terrible disaster should be used by private companies to further their commercial interests is the real tragedy. Now huge amounts of money have been wasted and the goals of the project are not even close to being achieved.
But this would take all the wind out of the sails of the Race to Waste profiteers. Using their stooges with corporate media, they promulgate misinformation and demonstrate to the unknowing public that there is a "crisis" in desperate need of a "solution".

Of course no one wants to be the one denying "the boys in blue the tools they need to do their jobs" and DARE ask, why are we buying "$6000 walkie talkies" and costly infrastructure in places where it clearly is not needed?

It's all part of the massive scam that is our bought and paid for corrupt Federal government, in the back pockets of those contractors' who solely exist to drain the taxpayers even more and further increase our debt.

I am surprised Mclatchy has the gonads to go after "Solutions" the way they are.

Take the Money and Run - Steve Miller Band Live From Chicago - YouTube
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Right

But this would take all the wind out of the sails of the Race to Waste profiteers. Using their stooges with corporate media, they promulgate misinformation and demonstrate to the unknowing public that there is a "crisis" in desperate need of a "solution".

Of course no one wants to be the one denying "the boys in blue the tools they need to do their jobs" and DARE ask, why are we buying "$6000 walkie talkies" and costly infrastructure in places where it clearly is not needed?

It's all part of the massive scam that is our bought and paid for corrupt Federal government, in the back pockets of those contractors' who solely exist to drain the taxpayers even more and further increase our debt.

I am surprised Mclatchy has the gonads to go after "Solutions" the way they are.

Best post ever!Thank you my friend! I think the best part is NYC the one place you thought that might get a new radio system didnt and a little 5 mile town in NJ did.Who needed it more?Instead of throwing the money around all willy nilly,the systems should all be inspected to see if they are in need of repair or replacement.Assign an inspector.Step 1.They have the argument we need interop when in fact one town is TURBO the other is DVP the other is some other thing,how is that an interop system? One wont work with the other,DUH! Why dont they all pick one system? P25 was supposed to be this.
 
Last edited:

mikewazowski

Forums Manager/Global DB Admin
Staff member
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
11,873
Location
Central Ontario
DVP? You sure about that?

DVP is a 1970's voice encryption algorithm and I would find it hard to believe that anybody would still be using it in this day and age.
 

N5TWB

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
1,032
Location
Sand Springs OK
I wish that we could get beyond the 9/11 example. The failures on 9/11 had to do with the loss of the buildings where many repeaters were located coupled with the FDNY's outmoded radio system and the general chaos on the whole event. The idea that this terrible disaster should be used by private companies to further their commercial interests is the real tragedy. Now huge amounts of money have been wasted and the goals of the project are not even close to being achieved.
AMEN!!

But this would take all the wind out of the sails of the Race to Waste profiteers. Using their stooges with corporate media, they promulgate misinformation and demonstrate to the unknowing public that there is a "crisis" in desperate need of a "solution".

Of course no one wants to be the one denying "the boys in blue the tools they need to do their jobs" and DARE ask, why are we buying "$6000 walkie talkies" and costly infrastructure in places where it clearly is not needed?

It's all part of the massive scam that is our bought and paid for corrupt Federal government, in the back pockets of those contractors' who solely exist to drain the taxpayers even more and further increase our debt.

I am surprised Mclatchy has the gonads to go after "Solutions" the way they are.

Take the Money and Run - Steve Miller Band Live From Chicago - YouTube
And AMEN again!! Throw in a few observations on unnecessary and expensive encryption and you'll have covered about 90% of the ills in the area of public safety communications.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
just an example

DVP? You sure about that?

DVP is a 1970's voice encryption algorithm and I would find it hard to believe that anybody would still be using it in this day and age.
Just trying to say if everyone uses different radio systems and encryptions,how will they ever talk to each other?
Tupper Lake,NY was using CB back when i was camping in the 80s,are you surpised now?
 

ko6jw_2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,129
Location
Santa Ynez, CA
Interoperability is an excuse to spend big bucks on new radio systems that are not compatible. It just means that more and more systems are encrypted to deny the public and the news media information.

In my county we have a mutual aid law enforcement system with repeaters in the two bordering counties. These repeaters were used for all points bulletins when they were first installed in the late seventies, but now never used. A few months ago there was a pursuit involving both city police and county sheriffs. The dispatchers were relaying information back and forth. Apparently no one knew they could switch to the mutual aid repeater and talk directly. Now just imagine what will happen with a really complex wide area mutual aid system.

Fire departments in California, on the other hand, have mastered mutual radio for decades because of the need to help in other in major wildfires. They didn't need expensive new systems - just frequency agile radios and standardized mutual aid channels.
 

chankel

Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
263
Location
Ephrata, PA
Do you realize how flexible, interoperable, and useful one of those "$6000 walkie talkies" from Thales (Liberty) or Harris (Unity) is in a multi-agency situation?
 

12dbsinad

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,261
Fire departments in California, on the other hand, have mastered mutual radio for decades because of the need to help in other in major wildfires. They didn't need expensive new systems - just frequency agile radios and standardized mutual aid channels.
They have mastered it because they keep it simple for the most part and don't let technology create a single point of failure with all kinds of crazy infrastructure. FirstNet is a joke. I like the statement that says by 2019-2020, broadband (maybe) will be able to reliably support public safety voice communications. What does "reliably" mean anyway? On a day to day bases or when the sh.. hits the fan? Do you consider your cellphone provider highly reliable during a disaster?

I worked recovery of communications during a tornado touchdown that cleaned out the dispatch center of a small town a few years ago. No cell phones, no fiber connections, no internet, no way of communications. They had a mobile radio with an antenna taped to a 100' ariel ladder truck parked next to a small command trailer that was set up in less than 45 mins. On simplex, range was 15-20 mile or so outdoors with a 5 watt handheld. Once communications was re-established even in the simplest of forms, it was like a godsend for both public safety personel, and the general public who needed help. Those are the types of things you need to be able to do with PS comm systems.
 

ten13

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
421
Location
ten13
All good posts here on the topic, especially on the continued...and phony...use of the WTC as an excuse to throw taxpayer dollars down the sewer!

With the demise of this money for "interoperability," I can see where a state like NJ can be hit hard. There are so many different radio systems being used, from the, 800 mhz system for the NJ State Police, 700 mhz trunked network that the biggest city, Newark is using along with some smaller cities, a 400, trunked, partially-digital, system for the states second biggest city, Jersey City, dozens and dozens of VHF systems, down to low-band for volunteer FDs.

And it looks like none of that is going to change anytime soon.
 

iamhere300

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,304
Location
Chappell Hill TX
Best post ever!Thank you my friend! I think the best part is NYC the one place you thought that might get a new radio system didnt and a little 5 mile town in NJ did.Who needed it more?Instead of throwing the money around all willy nilly,the systems should all be inspected to see if they are in need of repair or replacement.Assign an inspector.Step 1.They have the argument we need interop when in fact one town is TURBO the other is DVP the other is some other thing,how is that an interop system? One wont work with the other,DUH! Why dont they all pick one system? P25 was supposed to be this.
Ok, lets get rid of the myth that interoperability is being able to talk on every body elses channels.

Interoperability is easy, and it is 90% TRAINING AND MINDSET, 10% hardware changes.

At a large incident, I don't want everyone on every channel. They never end up where they are SUPPOSED to be, and controlling them is impossible. I can put different groups on different frequencies, talkgroups, tin cans and string, etc. Keep them there. They talk back to their command, who can talk to IC. Not everyone needs to be talking to IC, nor listening for IC.

Here is a fair example of a very basic ICS form 205. Notice the inclusion of three different bands, one of which is trunking. And it would work, just fine.

http://www.npstc.org/resourceCD/ICS205 ver 03_07 EXAMPLE.pdf

All those methods of communications can come down to the most basic common thing - analog interop channels. That is the way we have been doing it for years, and in recent years those interop channels have become common in most parts of the country. I remember listening to West TX during their fire, and hearing people being directed to the VFIRE channels. So simple, so easy, and it works so well.

Those responders could have the latest in P25 encrypted radios, but they still have that analog capability.

TRAINING. MINDSET. I don't care what band or mode you use in day to day operations, I just care that you also have the analog interop channels for your band in your radio.
 

jim202

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,669
Location
New Orleans region
No, tell me. How well are they interfaced IN REALITY. Pray tell.
Interoperability is at the mercy of the commanders on scene. If they don't want to use it, it will never happen. Bottom line is we can provide the equipment and technology, but if the management don't want it, your never going to change their mind.

So much for inter agency interoperability. Same thing goes for trying to get the different vendors to play in the same sandbox. Mother M will go out of their way to put road blocks in the way to allow other vendors to play well on their radio systems. They spend months playing with the radio firmware to exclude other vendor radios from interfacing smoothly on their trunking systems. They have spent years fighting the P25 open standards from being truly open to allow other vendor radios to play together.

What else would you expect from the largest vendor in the country?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top