Missouri State Highway Patrol (MOSWIN)

rbritton1201

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
When I try to program the Missouri State Highway Patrol frequencies, the names of tower sites that Radio Reference has assigned are often incorrect, or missing from the data base. The MOSWIN trunked system map shows where the towers actually are, but the locations that Radio Reference has assigned to some tower sites aren't sometimes accurate. I also believe Radio Reference is missing some of the tower sites in the data base.

If anyone is able to advise the current locations of the tower sites, and post them to the datat base, that would be a help? I notice some of the tower locations published by MOSWIN are not in the Radio Reference Data Base, or are named something different. For example, the "Ofallon" tower site is on the map published by MOSWIN, but it's not named in the Radio Reference Data Base. There are other incidents of towers that are represented as being in a particulae location, but the towers are physically located at the other end of the State from where Radio Reference is representing them to be.

It makes it very difficult to program tower sites into a scanner that are misidentified in the Radio Reference data base as being close, when the tower sites are actually 200 miles away.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,009
Location
West St Louis Cnty, MO
There are other incidents of towers that are represented as being in a particulae location, but the towers are physically located at the other end of the State from where Radio Reference is representing them to be.

It makes it very difficult to program tower sites into a scanner that are misidentified in the Radio Reference data base as being close, when the tower sites are actually 200 miles away.
Do you have some examples of these sites that are actually located "at the other end of the State"? Or are 200 miles away?
Site numbers and locations and names as listed in the database and then where these sites are actually located would be fine if you can reply with that info for some of the sites listed in error.
 

Arkmood

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
237
Location
Taney County MO

rbritton1201

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
Do you have some examples of these sites that are actually located "at the other end of the State"? Or are 200 miles away?
Site numbers and locations and names as listed in the database and then where these sites are actually located would be fine if you can reply with that info for some of the sites listed in error.
There are two tower sites entitled "O'fallon," which are on the MOSWIN map of tower sites I downloaded from MOSWIN via the internet, and they are not listed in the Radio Reference data base. I live in Franklin County, Missouri, and the strongest signals I receive are off the towers identified by the RR Data Base as Bagnell 700, Gainesville 700, Houston 700, Neosho 700, and Richmond 700. Yet, there are supposedly a number of towers much closer than those according to the MOSWIN published map, and some of these sites I'm receiviing the strongest signals from are not even listed on the MOSWIN published map.

Perhaps I'm looking at an old map or something, but, just for example, there's no way that I could see two or three bars of signal coming in on my BCD436HP (handheld) from the "Pineville" tower, which according to the MOSWIN map is located down near Joplin, in the furthest Southwest corner of the State, and me up near St. Louis. I also receive two or three bars of signal from the Booneville tower site, "Booneville" according to the RR data base. I'm very skeptical that signals are being received in St. Louis area from a tower in Booneville. These locations, at least with respect to the MOSWIN tower map, published by MOSWIN, which I Googled and downloaded from the MOSWIN site on the internet, do not seem to be accurate with respect to what is listed by certain names the RR Data Base.

Check to see when the " tower locations published by MOSWIN" were updated
Department of Public Safety - Interoperable Communication - MOSWIN Mapbooks - is not current, also take a look at the: 2020 MOSWIN Sites/Talkgroups some updated site information has not been submitted to RRDB...
I'll check it it out, might shed some light on things....thanks!

What map? Do you have a link to it?
Here is the link I found at the MOSWIN website showing the supposed locations of the towers and their respective names...But, I don't see some of the towers on the map that I'm getting my strongest signals from (ie: Bagnell 700?, Gainesville 700?. Richmond 700?, Houston 700?). I can't even find these on the map, unless I'm overlooking them. I'm getting signals from the Imperial tower, the Shirley tower, the Cherryville Tower, the Leasburg tower. But, they're usually only about 3 bars of signal. But, at least the receipt of signals from those sights makes sense, they're on the map, and they're relatively within theoretically sensible range.


Check to see when the " tower locations published by MOSWIN" were updated
Department of Public Safety - Interoperable Communication - MOSWIN Mapbooks - is not current, also take a look at the: 2020 MOSWIN Sites/Talkgroups some updated site information has not been submitted to RRDB...
Do you have a link to the 2020 Moswin Sites and Talkgroups?
 
Last edited:

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,009
Location
West St Louis Cnty, MO
Okay,

I think you are not looking at the site frequencies. MANY sites used by Moswin share the same frequencies.
You need to watch your radio and see what the site number is that it's reporting.
You may need to Hold on the active sites control channel for the 436 to display the site number info. You will likely find the site number it displays is the site number of a site fairly local to you.

In one of your examples, the Boonville site uses the same control channel frequencies as our local Weldon Spring site on 154.695. This is the Primary on Weldon and the Secondary for Boonville.

The best way to program Moswin is only add the sites you know are within your range.
The 700 MHz sites are generally fairly local while the VHF sites can travel a fair distance.

For Franklin County, I'd program the Weldon Spring site, the 700 MHz Washington and St Clair sites and probably the Warrenton sites for starters. Leave all the other sites out so they don't confuse you as you are not picking up the distant sites your 436 is saying it is receiving.
Your 436 is tricking you because you probably added all sites and frequencies! It's a 'very' common mistake.

Also, you may or may not get the two 700 MHz sites I mentioned above. Like I said, they are fairly area specific without much distant coverage so you may only get one or the other or none or both. Receiving the 700 MHz sites will greatly depend on your exact location.

The other thing is regarding the O'Fallon sites. The Weldon Spring is considered one of them if you go by the Moswin mapbook pdf. This is basically wrong. The mapbook pdf is old as was mentioned and was last updated back in March of 2015 or so.
The other O'Fallon site (a 700 MHz site) is listed here but it's still listed as "St Charles Co Simulcast" back from the days of Moswin (or even before Moswin as we know it today). St Louis City PD was the original user of the SYSID of 1CE which is now the SYSID for Moswin.
The St Charles Co Simulcast site has not been heard on the air since about the time Troop C low band cut over to Moswin ages ago.
If it is on the air, I sure can't receive it and I'm just across the Missouri River from where the site is listed. Maybe another local user will chime in about the history of this site. The sites FCC license is still active though so who knows what is up with that. I'd like to know the history of this site if anyone knows.

Basically, the info here for Moswin is nearly as accurate as can be minus new sites not added yet that you can see being discussed in the 2020 Moswin Sites and Talkgroups thread here in the Missouri Forum 2020 MOSWIN Sites/Talkgroups
Believe me, if there were errors like you were thinking, they would have been called out by the many well seasoned Moswin listeners here long ago!

Hopefully this covers your concerns and questions.
 

rbritton1201

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
Some of the names assigned by the Radio Reference data base still don't accurately correlate to where the towers actually are. The strongest signals I receive are Neosho, Richmond 700, Houston 700, Bagnell 700, and Gainsville 700, and I'm in Franklin County. Those are the tower locations that I receive strongest. I understand that the frequencies are shared by other towers in other parts of the State. But, if you have to check the most recent list of frequency assignments to ascertain where the towers actually are that you're receiving strong signals from, because RR doesn't distinguish them from other shared locations, then during programming it's confusing. I finally resorted to programming based on the number of bars I receive from a tower, and the names of the towers in Radio Reference don't help to select the strongest signals. For example, I should be getting strong signals off of what is represened as the Washington Tower in RR, but it's dead, and I'm only 6 miles down the road. Same with the St. Clair tower, dead, and I'm three miles from what is represented as the St. Clair tower within Radio Reference. Maybe the strongest towers I'm receiving that are named differently than Washinton and St. Clair within RR are actually the same frequencies that are actually in Washington and St. Clair, but that's not what's displayed on the read-out on the scanner. They must be represented in RR as Noesho, Richmond 700, Houston 700, Bagnell 700, and Gainsville 700. And, I can tell where these towers actually cover based on where the calls for service are occurring, and some are nowhere near the tower locations showing up on the display of the scanner.
 
Last edited:

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,009
Location
West St Louis Cnty, MO
I did some research on this and found that they changed the frequencies used by the St Clair 700 tower. St Clair now has its control channel on 769.19375 which is the same as the other sites you listed.
Being as the control channel is now the same as several 700 MHz sites across the state is why you are seeing incorrect site info on your 436.
This change was very recent like in the past two or three months or so going from some logs. Someone within range of the site needs to watch the control channel and get the current list of frequencies.

This change can happen at will with the way the 700 MHz State Licenses work.
The only way the RR database can remain accurate is for users to submit correct info as changes or new info are found.
The old control channel for St Clair was accurate at the time the site was added to the RR database a while back now.

As to the new Washington 700 MHz site, it's control channel is still on 773.03125. I can see that from here right now. The site is on the air.
I was just in Washington the other day and the site was definitely running with a very nice signal.
I could easily pick it up all along Highway 94 from I-64 when I was in the higher elevations as I drove west, closer and closer to highway 47.
Its signal was very nice.
I have no idea what happens to the Washington sites signal south of Washington as you get nearer to I-44 but it covers the Missouri river valley north of Washington very well.
Also, while in Washington, I logged the traffic on the site. Traffic was very light. It only carried traffic from the users associated with that site which was less than a handful the two different days I was there in the past month.

I'm going to say that all your confusion is coming from the fact that the St Clair site changed to 769.19375 for its control channel. Look at the other sites you mentioned, almost all use this same frequency.

Do you know how to use the Analyze/System Status feature from the 436 menu?
If so, analyze the site(s) that you are seeing signals on. The info on the 436 will likely show you are receiving "System ID: 001CEh-003" on the top line and "Site ID: 0045" on the 2nd line. The 3rd smaller line should also show a NAC value. If you see this, post what the value reads so the NAC can be added in the RR DB.
 

nd5y

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
9,016
Location
Wichita Falls, TX
It looks like there are a few sets of six 700 MHz channels that are reused in different areas. You have to look at the RFSS and site numbers and not just the frequencies to determine what site you are actually receiving.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,009
Location
West St Louis Cnty, MO
It looks like there are a few sets of six 700 MHz channels that are reused in different areas. You have to look at the RFSS and site numbers and not just the frequencies to determine what site you are actually receiving.
I keep forgetting about the pdf you linked in the wiki regarding more recent build-outs and the 700 MHz state license info it contains.
That pdf sure makes it easy to determine all six of a 700 MHz sites frequencies if you just know one of them.

From that PDF, the St Clair, MO 700 MHz site 3-45 now uses Channel Set D.
 

Cameron314

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 30, 2003
Messages
124
If you are in Franklin County you aren't receiving a strong 700mhz signal from Neosho. Just isn't going to happen.
 

rbritton1201

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
If you are in Franklin County you aren't receiving a strong 700mhz signal from Neosho. Just isn't going to happen.
Yeah, I agree totally, but that's the name of the site displayed on the readout of the scanner. If I knew more about the technicalities involved, I would do some research to get to the bottom of why the Neosho tower name tag is showing up on my scanner, when there is no way I would be receiving signals from the Neosho tower. If I knew more, then I would pitch-in to correct things.

Maybe it's actually the St. Clair tower, or the Washington tower, and just incorrectly displayed on my scanner. I get no activity with respect to the Washington and St. Clair towers displayed on my scanner after downloading those tower sites from Spectrum, and I'm so close to those sites that there is no way I would not be receiving them.

My original observation seems to be the case that Radio Reference is very outdated with respect to the names of the towers assigned by it when programming through Spectrum. Maybe it's not Radio Reference, but Spectrum that's the culprit.

I could try using Proscan to program, perhaps it's more accurate with it's tower labels than Spectrum. But, I thought Spectrum gets it's programming from Radio Reference, as does Proscan, supposedly.
 
Last edited:

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,009
Location
West St Louis Cnty, MO
Yeah, I agree totally, but that's the name of the site displayed on the readout of the scanner. If I knew more about the technicalities involved, I would do some research to get to the bottom of why the Neosho tower name tag is showing up on my scanner, when there is no way I would be receiving signals from the Neosho tower. If I knew more, then I would pitch-in to correct things.

Maybe it's actually the St. Clair tower, or the Washington tower, and just incorrectly displayed on my scanner. I get no activity with respect to the Washington and St. Clair towers displayed on my scanner after downloading those tower sites from Spectrum, and I'm so close to those sites that there is no way I would not be receiving them.

My original observation seems to be the case that Radio Reference is very outdated with respect to the names of the towers assigned by it when programming through Spectrum. Maybe it's not Radio Reference, but Spectrum that's the culprit.

I could try using Proscan to program, perhaps it's more accurate with it's tower labels than Spectrum. But, I thought Spectrum gets it's programming from Radio Reference, as does Proscan, supposedly.

Did you read my last post I posted yesterday evening?
It is most certainly the St Clair tower you are hearing. My post explains what is going on here.

No idea why you are not receiving Washington though. The site is definitely on the air and using the primary control channel as listed in the database. I was out there this morning and checked the site while there.
Did you perform a database update in Sentinel?? There were some changes made to the Washington site a month or two back that would not be reflected in Sentinel if you have not updated it in a while.
 

rbritton1201

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
Did you read my last post I posted yesterday evening?
It is most certainly the St Clair tower you are hearing. My post explains what is going on here.

No idea why you are not receiving Washington though. The site is definitely on the air and using the primary control channel as listed in the database. I was out there this morning and checked the site while there.
Did you perform a database update in Sentinel?? There were some changes made to the Washington site a month or two back that would not be reflected in Sentinel if you have not updated it in a while.
Yes, I read your post...and I appreciated knowing the actual technicalities. Never-the less, I suppose my frustration is with Spectrum, which I use, and is supposedly updated from Radio Reference weekly. In order to have accurate displays on your scanner, you have to do as you do, tracking down the actual control channels. If you try downloading these sites by "name" via Spectrum, you're often going to get erroneous location data displayed on your scanner that is nowhere near where the control channel is actually located.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,009
Location
West St Louis Cnty, MO
Yes, I read your post...and I appreciated knowing the actual technicalities. Never-the less, I suppose my frustration is with Spectrum, which I use, and is supposedly updated from Radio Reference weekly. In order to have accurate displays on your scanner, you have to do as you do, tracking down the actual control channels. If you try downloading these sites by "name" via Spectrum, you're often going to get erroneous location data displayed on your scanner that is nowhere near where the control channel is actually located.
What is Spectrum? Have a link for it? I'm clueless on this one!
 

rbritton1201

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
I looked at the Radio Reference page that has the current control channels listed. If I want my scanner to display the St. Clair and Washington towers, do I need to just enter the control channel frequencies, and name them accordningly. Will the entry of those control channels also include not only the base station transmissions, but also the cars when they reply? I notice the control channels are in red, and some are listed is blue, as well as some that are printed in black. Do I need to enter a series of other channels to receive the cars when they reply to the base station? I noticed that the Radio Reference page includes the city where the towers are located, but next to the cities, they have towers named differently, where the same tower frequencies are also being used in other areas in the State.
 
Top