MO DNR - 151.310 - Hearing digital traffic???

Status
Not open for further replies.

w0hfc

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Saint Charles, MO
I don't have an accessible P25 scanner to check, but it sounds as though I'm hearing digital traffic on a statewide used DNR frequency: 151.310. I at first thought it was intermod/QRN, but the more I hear it I really think it might actually be P25 digital? I'm near the St Charles / St Louis County line so it might be coming from Babler SP? I've never heard anything else besides FM on that frequency.

Is anybody else hearing traffic (statewide) in digital on 151.310? Is it possibly out of state traffic that's coming into the area? VHF signals have been traveling well today, so that wouldn't surprise me.


DB
 

w0hfc

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Saint Charles, MO
I'm starting to think it could be MOSWIN splinter frequency bleeding over to 151.310. I thought I just heard Troop C traffic (after I borrowed a friend's scanner) and I'm only a few air miles from the Weldon springs tower. More to follow, might be a wild goose chase but we'll see.
 

scanman1958

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
714
Location
St. Louis
Could be conservation using digital. But I doubt it too. They use many different pl/dpl's too. You are probably right that they gave up a freq or two for the MOSWIN system. I am finding freqs that I had programmed for many departments around the state now being used by MOSWIN.

Good luck.
 

teufler

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,348
Location
ST PETERS, MISSOURI
MOSWIN only has 3 towers that have a 151.xxx shown. Cole, Storade and Emminence. As was suggested, maybe some skip, or tropo.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,174
Location
St. Louis County, MO
MOSWIN only has 3 towers that have a 151.xxx shown. Cole, Storade and Emminence. As was suggested, maybe some skip, or tropo.
How often or active does it appear to be w0hfc?

I plugged it into several radios and have not heard it on the air yet.
I also plugged it into an Icom R9000 to check for center frequency on 151.310 just in case that is not the true frequency center.

How strong does the signal appear at your QTH w0hfc?

I get pretty decent reception from that area here sitting up pretty high above the Missouri river bottom so I should not have any problems hearing it if it is a local signal.
I'm just east or northeast of the original Stl County EOC towers if you know where those are located. I actually sit a bit higher than the EOC's ground altitude but I don't have the nice towers to go along with it!

I'll sit on it plus record the radio set for P25 just in case I get something while at work.


I have one for you both, 155.865. It used to be licensed for Stl County OEM use but was cancelled after Slater really got going.
I noticed the other day that 155.865 is again licensed to Stl County under a new call at 25 watts out.
I plugged that one in and am getting an open carrier with no PL or DPL tone. I do hear a burst of what sounds like FSK or some form of telemetry data maybe once every 30 minutes or further apart but otherwise, it's just an open carrier.
I plugged it into a radio at work and also found the open carrier so that ruled out noise from my own equipment.

I recall going to one of the counties health centers down south around 30 and Lindbergh years ago and they had an air quality monitoring station setup in the back of the parking lot of that health center.
I recall it spitting out short bursts of data on the same frequency but that was some years back now.

I'm guessing this may be the same thing I'm hearing today but not sure. I know they had a few of these air quality monitoring stations around the county back then. I'll need to try and remember to monitor that one when storm season gets here and see if traffic picks up.
The ones I did find years ago did have simple weather monitoring equipment as well but the main sensor appeared to be a jar or container of sorts that sucked in air for some type of air quality measurements.
I recall being able to hear what sounded like a slow speed vacuum pump pulling in air through the jar for sampling.
None of them were located near any hazardous areas like near say a certain landfill for example!
In fact, the ones I did find years ago were located in what I'd call pretty clean air environments so who knows what they were/are monitoring for.


I never heard any form of ID or voice, just the very short bursts of data on the frequency. That was years ago and the amount of data bursts I hear today is even way less frequent.
Something must trigger them as they don't spew out the data bursts at any regular intervals that I could determine today.
It's more or less when some threshold is met before they are triggered to send the short data burst.

Can either of you hear an open carrier from your QTH on 155.865 MHz?

At one time, it was listed as something to do with weather for the county but I don't recall ever hearing any voice traffic on the frequency.
I think the database here still lists the frequency under Stl County OEM but it is listed as deprecated (and expired) now. The new active call sign is WQXB616 and it appears to be licensed in use for five areas around the county.
One of those locations is the counties new ECC they built along with the Slater system.
One of the other locations is the old EOC site just down the road from my QTH.

As listed under the new call at the FCC site, locations 3,4 and 5 are all within my reception area and site 3 appears to be on the tower at the old EOC location so you may be able to hear that one as it is shown as being up about 230 feet on the tower.

It would be interesting to see if either of you can hear the open carrier on 155.865. I'm more curious as to why the continuous open carrier I can hear on the frequency. Who knows, maybe that is how they know the transmitter is working as far apart the bursts of data seem to occur at times today.

I'll report back if I hear any type of digital signals on 151.310 from my end.

I actually noticed that 151.310 is really licensed for the Department of Conservation and not DNR. DNR or Department of Natural Resources are actually two separate entities or agencies within the state.
One is heard on Moswin but the other is not AFAIK.

I think DNR is actually a division of the state parks department.
Why we need both has always been a mystery as they both seem to have almost the same job functions.
The database here is confusing as well as it mentions state parks department as well as DNR for 151.310.
If you look at the FCC site, 151.310 is mainly licensed to a division of the DNR known as the state parks or Department of Conservation.
They both even publish their own free monthly or quarterly magazines free of charge for state residents.

So when you hear say "Ranger 35" come up on Moswin, is that a DNR ranger or a state park ranger?!
I was always confused by the two agencies in this state.

Try running 151.310 and 151.160 through the FCC site and you should see both agencies if you select a common call sign under each search result. One will be DNR and the other is the Department of Conservation.
Very similar job functions as well.
Of course both are licensed in what used to be reserved for the conservation or parks type operations when the FCC allocated ranges of frequencies for specific user types.
 

Cameron314

Member
Joined
May 30, 2003
Messages
96
H
I actually noticed that 151.310 is really licensed for the Department of Conservation and not DNR. DNR or Department of Natural Resources are actually two separate entities or agencies within the state.
One is heard on Moswin but the other is not AFAIK.

I think DNR is actually a division of the state parks department.
Why we need both has always been a mystery as they both seem to have almost the same job functions.
The database here is confusing as well as it mentions state parks department as well as DNR for 151.310.
If you look at the FCC site, 151.310 is mainly licensed to a division of the DNR known as the state parks or Department of Conservation.
They both even publish their own free monthly or quarterly magazines free of charge for state residents.

So when you hear say "Ranger 35" come up on Moswin, is that a DNR ranger or a state park ranger?!
I was always confused by the two agencies in this state.

Try running 151.310 and 151.160 through the FCC site and you should see both agencies if you select a common call sign under each search result. One will be DNR and the other is the Department of Conservation.
Very similar job functions as well.
Of course both are licensed in what used to be reserved for the conservation or parks type operations when the FCC allocated ranges of frequencies for specific user types.
Other way around, State Parks is a division of DNR. The Rangers you hear on MOSWIN are DNR. As far as I know Dept of Conservation does not really use MOSWIN, they have their own good sized conventional VHF statewide system.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,174
Location
St. Louis County, MO
Other way around, State Parks is a division of DNR. The Rangers you hear on MOSWIN are DNR. As far as I know Dept of Conservation does not really use MOSWIN, they have their own good sized conventional VHF statewide system.
I knew something sounded reversed.
I used to spend a lot of time back in the day monitoring the Conservation Department.
They have always had a decent radio system if you ask me. It's been many years since I monitored their analog repeaters but they never seemed to have many issues talking with mobiles even down in the hilliest parts of the Ozarks. I don't recall if it was DNR or Conservation that could link their repeaters together across the state using simple DTMF signaling. Whichever department it was could essentially talk to anyone across the state by linking the repeaters. It was a neat system and worked well long before trunking came around.

I truly miss the old days when you had a bunch of state agencies using nothing more than good ole analog VHF repeater systems. And of course the old low band state patrol radios. The highway patrol basically used brute force power levels to cut through the hills of the Ozarks. Some stations were licensed for 5 or 10kW output on low band.
They still do low band roll calls on both of Troop C's main low band dispatch and mobile channels on Sunday mornings. I think some of the other Troops still maintain and test their low band radios as well but I'm not sure if all troops still have low band radios. Troop C still uses low band on a daily basis for some of the troopers they can't reach on Moswin. Sometimes they simulcast the low band calls over Moswin as well probably for the benefit of the others that may not have low band radios any longer but often I'll hear them calling a trooper on low band only.

Thanks for setting me straight on whom is a division of whom as far as DNR and the Conservation Dept goes.

Even MODOT had decent repeater coverage across much of the state back in the day but they seem to use simplex more often these days even though they do still have and use their repeaters when a truck on one side of the district needs to talk with someone on the other side of the district they are in.

edit: I forgot to even mention that I monitored 151.310 all day today and not a single peep heard or logged on that frequency so I must guess it may have been good or rare conditions the day w0hfc heard what sounded like P25 digital on his end.
I'd have loved to have heard it and made an ID of it the same day he heard it.
 
Last edited:

scanman1958

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
714
Location
St. Louis
Here is what I have for 155.865. I kept my old book with freqs and listings. I am sure someday it all will be useful. Ha ha. Anyway, 155.865 (151.4) was supposed to be the StL County tornado siren activation. I remember it being a digital type noise and no voice.

It MAY? have been used for voice too along with a couple other freqs. I have two notations for 155.865. One was that it was simulcast along with 154.725 (old RIOT channel) and 45.52-the emergency management school network freq. Though I never heard anything on 45.52. Ever. The other notation was that 155.865 was tested every Wednesday at 11.05 and first Monday of the month.

I am monitoring 155.865 on my 396xt and it is as quiet as a mouse. But I am in southwest St Louis city. I am sure there is nothing for me to hear.

Anyway, that's what I got.
 

scanman1958

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
714
Location
St. Louis
ALSO

151.310, on my trusty old listings, was listed as Babler State Park, and Bennett Spring State Park for either the Conservation Dept or Natural Resources. I too am completely confused on which is which. Some radio traffic was chit chat for employees and other was police traffic for either of the before mentioned departments.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,174
Location
St. Louis County, MO
151.310, on my trusty old listings, was listed as Babler State Park, and Bennett Spring State Park for either the Conservation Dept or Natural Resources. I too am completely confused on which is which. Some radio traffic was chit chat for employees and other was police traffic for either of the before mentioned departments.
I too recall 151.310 having something to do with Babler plus someone else mentioned that as well.
I know 151.160 was also widely used back then for Conservation law enforcement for our area and 151.310 was used at Babler due to its proximity to St. Louis and the kids that liked to hang out at a state park and drink.

For 155.865, I think you have that one nailed. I recall monitoring it when they tested it with the schedule you listed!
I think they just tested the radios on each Wednesday as I can't say I remember the sirens sounding that often. What I do think I remember was them sending a test tone and each siren location responded with an acknowledgement message that the tone had been heard.
I can recall being able to hear some of the sirens radios that were nearby. I think they did a full siren test on that first Monday of the month.
I also recall some schools maybe and probably some public safety buildings had alerting receivers that would activate (like an old Plectron receiver) when they received the test or real alert tones. I do recall being able to hear them on the real riot channel also and I think 155.865 later became known as one of the extra RIOT channels which had names like RIOT A, or D etc. The county used to test them a channel at a time up until Slater was fully running. I found that I still have 155.865 in an old Icom's memory listed in with all the other oddball riot type channels they had.
As soon as you mentioned the simulcast on 154.725, that made my brain pop and I looked in my old Icom R7000 memory and sure enough, 155.865 was entered there.
I can't remember if they were still using it for the sirens when I put that into the old Icom of if it was then known as one of the odd riot channels by then.
Who knows what it may be used for today but obviously something if the county has obtained a new license for it. Like I'd mentioned, I do hear an occasional burst of data every blue moon that seem to come from the same transmitter that has the open carrier on it as I don't see any change in signal strength when I hear the data sound.
Even though the active license shows it as 25 watts, it could be coming off the old EOC towers just down the street from me and may only be putting out a watt or two. The license list two transmitters at the old EOC location here just off Olive and Ladue. One is listed as having an antenna at darn near ground level and the other is shown at about 260 feet on one of the towers.
So 155.865 remains a mystery signal for now. I need to try and remember to monitor it when severe weather hits this spring or when they do the statewide tornado drill, whichever comes first, and see if the channel springs to life.
The current sirens have a pair of 800 MHz frequencies listed on a county license. I think they are listed in the database here as well. I don't know why they have two 800 MHz frequencies unless one is a backup and the sirens have dual receivers in them or possibly one frequency is used to send back a confirmation signal that the alert signal was received and the siren sounded. I don't really know.

I wonder if 155.865 still runs some old equipment still in service out there somewhere? But with really only maybe 3 transmit locations and only 25 watts, they can't be that far away and probably are not even hooked to outdoor antennas
Who knows but maybe some private or small schools still have the old VHF alerting receivers in service. One would think the county would have helped them out with modern alerting receivers on the 800 MHz freqs the sirens use today.
I looked at the active license again for 155.865 and there are really only 3 locations. Two of the five listed locations have a high and low antenna but same location.
I guess this one will remain a mystery until it springs to life!

Thanks for bringing back my memory! I think your old notes you found are correct as far as what they were used for in the past.

I also found 151.310 still entered into my old 780XLT in the bank I'd named Conservation with the simple name of "Parks" for the frequency. Not much help there! And my finding of 155.865 in my R7000 is not much help as it does not have alpha tagging but the frequency was lumped in with all the so called Riot type channels the county had named them. I did find 155.865 in my 780XLT as well but I'd just given it a name of "SLC OEM Wx-V" so also not much help! I did have it set with the PL of 151.4 just like you found in your notes. It was also lumped in with the counties RIOT type channels just as I found it in the Icom. That name probably came from some old local area frequency list like some RadioShack stores used to give you years ago.
 

scanman1958

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
714
Location
St. Louis
Glad I could be of some help. I agree that 'those were the days' it was a lot of fun back then. I could program some of my old scanners with freqs that would cover 20 counties or more in the St Louis region. And with low band skip I could hear the entire state of MO. wow. I don't want to get depressed. I better stop.
 

wb0wao

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Cape Girardeau, MO
I have heard Conservation Units on MOSWIN in Troop E using the call - "Conservation xxx". They are using normal Troop E Dispatch TGs' and have UID's in the 182xx and 10182xx series. They aren't very active, but they do show up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top