MO3 in the database

[zerg901]

I dont see any mention of MO3 in the Database Admin Handbook. Searching this forum for MO3 and VMR gives no results.

The FCC ULS has many listings tagged / classified as MO3 and FB2T. Common names are - rat paks - portable extenders - temporary repeaters - vehicle mounted repeaters - deployable repeaters - transportable repeaters - mobile extenders - Pyramid repeaters - etc.

Maybe the Radio Reference Database should have a "V" designation for "vehicle mounted repeaters". Possibly this might be too confusing for the casual scannerist. Maybe the info is better placed in the Wiki.

California Highway Patrol uses MO3 extensively AFAIK. They are listed in the Radio Reference Database presently as "RM" and "Extender". I am not sure if that means MO3 or FB2. (I think I read they have both actually). Washington DC FD apparently has a MO3 in every fire truck. Many small towns have MO3 in police cars, fire command cars, and ambulances.

Anyone know the technical difference (per the FCC) between a FB2T and a MO3?

I think that labeling both MO3 and FB2 as "R" in the Radio Reference Database does a disservice. Typically the monitoring range for a MO3 is much different than for a FB2.

 

[Thunderknight]

Anyone know the technical difference (per the FCC) between a FB2T and a MO3?

I've wondered the same thing... E.g. What about a repeater mounted on a mast on a command vehicle. Is that an MO3 or an FB2T?

 

[nd5y]

I've wondered the same thing... E.g. What about a repeater mounted on a mast on a command vehicle. Is that an MO3 or an FB2T?

The T in FBT, FB2T, etc. stands for temporary. That means temporary operation from a fixed location. Mobile command post repeaters and base stations are almost always licensed that way.

 

[loumaag]

Maybe the Radio Reference Database should have a "V" designation for "vehicle mounted repeaters". Possibly this might be too confusing for the casual scannerist. Maybe the info is better placed in the Wiki.

Okay, I think this is the crux of your question in regard to how it applies to us here at RR. We don't care. If it is a repeater (fixed, mobile, temporary) it is "R" in the DB. If the entry also has the capability to be used in simplex mode on the output or the entry includes the input frequency then it also is a "M", which accounts for the vast majority of the PS repeaters in the database and the vast majority then being classified as "RM".

Although it is interesting to understand the FCC classifications it really doesn't impact what we use in the DB.

 

[mtindor]

I think that labeling both MO3 and FB2 as "R" in the Radio Reference Database does a disservice. Typically the monitoring range for a MO3 is much different than for a FB2.

MO3 is typically going to be vehicular repeaters. They might be crossband vehicular repeaters. You'll see they are low power and in some cases extremely low power. You might see just one freg (such as 160.15) listed in the DB as MO3, you might see a pair (such as a 453 / 458 pair).

the MO3 and low power designators are usually dead giveaways of an MRE / vehicular repeater.

As Lou mentioned, for our purposes it's irrelvant. If somebody submits something as a mobile repeater extender / vehicular repeater, we usually designate it as such in the description and list it as M. At least that's how I do it. Why just M? Because it's not always [and probably not often] and actual full duplex two-frequency single-band repeater. And it's usually of such low power that you'd never hear it unless you were in close proximity to it.

Mike

 

[zerg901]

Which is it - M or R? Is CHP operating both FB2 and MO3 on the same 700 freqs? They will have much different "operating areas". (ie - areas in which they can be heard on a scanner)

 

[zerg901]

http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...241-chp-700-mhz-base-station-frequencies.html

I found info about the CHP system here. Seems to be up in the air right now.

Possibly there might be a need for multiple entries in the database for the CHP 700 Mhz system for each office location. M, HT, MO3, FB, FB2, FX1, linked or unlinked, etc

 

[mtindor]

http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...241-chp-700-mhz-base-station-frequencies.html

I found info about the CHP system here. Seems to be up in the air right now.

Possibly there might be a need for multiple entries in the database for the CHP 700 Mhz system for each office location. M, HT, MO3, FB, FB2, FX1, linked or unlinked, etc

M = M in the RRDB
FB = B in the RRDB
FB2 = R in the RRDB
FX1 - no real equivalent in the DB

Although in the case where you see things like 453.350 FX1 / 453.850 FX2, then in the DB we'd add 453.35 F and 458.35 F (because it would usually be a fixed link). For instance, you might have a main dispatch center in the county with antennas, and then two remote locations (lets say East and West) where there are receivers. You might see FX entries in the FCC records to indicate that link -- typically not a repeater link but just TX from the receive sites back to the main, or in some cases one freq is used for TX from the center to the RX sites and the other freq is used for TX from the RX sites to the center.

At any rate, as Lou pointed out, the RRDB doesn't need to have all of those designators covered in the DB. Besides, what it listed in the FCC database is quite often not correct at all. So we go by what people hear and submit. That's what really counts.

If you haven't, you should read the Admin Handbook (it's in the wiki). It describes the various designators and when/where they should be used in the RRDB.


Mike

 

[zerg901]

I am suggesting that V be added to the database. The area of coverage for a MO3 is much different usually than the area of coverage for a FB2. If the database lists both FB2 and MO3 as "R", then many people will probably be wondering why some "R" are always loud and clear, and other "R" are usually always scratchy.

For the CHP - if they are using 700 Mhz for both FB2 and MO3 - then listings for one post could be -
700.111 B NAC 222 Station Base + link from low band
700.111 R NAC 333 Station Repeater - (735.111 NAC 333 input)
700.111 V NAC 444 Car MO3 - mobile extender - link from low band mobile
700.111 M NAC 444 Car MO3 - mobile extender - link TO low band mobile
700.111 V NAC 555 Car MO3 - mobile extender - onscene repeater - (735.111 NAC 555 input)
700.111 M NAC 666 Car to car
735.111 M NAC 777 Car to car - reverse
735.111 M NAC 222 Car to Station

My point - already we are up to 8 listings for 1 freq pair at 1 location - with different areas of coverage for each listing. Obviously this can take up a lot of space in the Database. But it is more accurate and more informative than not listing the fine details.

 

[hfxChris]

I am suggesting that V be added to the database. The area of coverage for a MO3 is much different usually than the area of coverage for a FB2. If the database lists both FB2 and MO3 as "R", then many people will probably be wondering why some "R" are always loud and clear, and other "R" are usually always scratchy.

As was said, if it's a vehicle repeater or extender, then we state it as such in the description for the entry. That's where we define what the channel is used for.

 

[ericcarlson]

There are a ton of FCC classifications. As you've noticed, the RR "type" field is greatly simplified. "RM" is used for frequency pairs where the input is repeated on the output.

 

[zerg901]

There are a ton of FCC classifications. As you've noticed, the RR "type" field is greatly simplified. "RM" is used for frequency pairs where the input is repeated on the output.

"where the input is repeated on the output" - isnt that an incorrect definition? 99% of the time, if a repeater / FB2 (R) is in use, then the input is repeated on the output. (Its like saying that a table has legs or a car has wheels).

Just to clarify this - per previous posts - AFAIK - "RM" can either mean - an entry where the input is listed - or - a channel that sometimes has field units operating on just the output side of the repeater (talkaround)

Perhaps the designations can be changed to RM and Ri to clarify the situation in the database. (Also - perhaps VM and Vi could be designators for MO3 entrys).

Caution - kinda going off topic into 2 separate issues here.

Maybe an example would help. Boston Police field units do not have talkaround or direct capability on any channels AFAIK. Therefore the entry could be "Ri" not RM (RM being ambiguous in this case). Boston Police do not use any MO3 AFAIK - therefore there would be no VM or Vi entrys. If their Mobile Command Hut has a FB2T - then I guess that could be listed as a VM or Vi. If the FB2T was listed as a R, it might have much less range than a typical BPD "R".

 

[mtindor]

Just to clarify this - per previous posts - AFAIK - "RM" can either mean - an entry where the input is listed - or - a channel that sometimes has field units operating on just the output side of the repeater (talkaround)

RM is reserved for repeaters. However, the only thing the scanner makes use of is the output. Consider this scenario:

155.64 / 156.09 RM 110.9 PL Podunk PD
155.64 M 110.9 PL Podunk PD talkaround / TAC

The output is 155.64 in both cases, and the PL is the same in both cases. So we list the "all inclusive" one, that being the RM entry. Might be a note on it such as "Podunk PD -- also used in simplex mode for talkaround" -- ex:

155.64 / 156.09 RM 110.9 PL Podunk PD (also used in simplex mode for talkaround)

Now, if 156.09 (the input) is often used as a TAC channel, we'll list it separately as an M - ex:

155.64 / 156.09 RM 110.9 PL Podunk PD
156.09 M xxx.xx PL Podunk PD Tac 2

We aren't to duplicate frequencies in the DB for a county / agency (although there are many places where frequencies are duplicated in a county because this policy was not always in place). This is the rule unless the PL is different to separate an agency / use.

So, we do not list something as RM because field units may be operating on the output. We list it as RM because it is a repeater, regardless of whether its 100% repeater traffic on the output vs occasional simplex on the output by field units.

MIke

 

[loumaag]

"where the input is repeated on the output" - isnt that an incorrect definition? 99% of the time, if a repeater / FB2 (R) is in use, then the input is repeated on the output. (Its like saying that a table has legs or a car has wheels).

Please, unless I have gone completely senile, I see no difference in the two highlighted (by me) portions of the above quote. Since they are the same, you apparently agree with us; although please make note of below in regards to the FCC.

Just to clarify this - per previous posts - AFAIK - "RM" can either mean - an entry where the input is listed - or - a channel that sometimes has field units operating on just the output side of the repeater (talkaround)

This is true as far as it goes.

Perhaps the designations can be changed to RM and Ri to clarify the situation in the database. (Also - perhaps VM and Vi could be designators for MO3 entrys).

We are not changing the designations or adding to them.

Caution - kinda going off topic into 2 separate issues here.

Maybe an example would help. Boston Police field units do not have talkaround or direct capability on any channels AFAIK. Therefore the entry could be "Ri" not RM (RM being ambiguous in this case). Boston Police do not use any MO3 AFAIK - therefore there would be no VM or Vi entrys. If their Mobile Command Hut has a FB2T - then I guess that could be listed as a VM or Vi. If the FB2T was listed as a R, it might have much less range than a typical BPD "R".

We don't particularly care what the FCC uses on the license, it is only used as a hint as to what we will determine to call a channel according to our designations based on its actual use.

Since you started this with a question about MO3, understand we don't care what the FCC has classified the use of a frequency, they often have several classifications for the same frequency at the same location. Basically when it comes to classifying conventional entries in the database, they are classified as "R", "M", "B", or "F" or approved combinations of those.

 

[GTR8000]

Basically when it comes to classifying conventional entries in the database, they are classified as "R", "M", "B", or "F" or approved combinations of those.

Actually, R is no longer valid as a standalone type, although there are still quite a few "grandfathered" entries using it. B, BM, RM, M and F are the current choices.

In any case...Peter, it's been made clear that additional designators are not going to be added to the RRDB, so it's time to move on.

 

[scannerman5555]

how about the trunking bases FB 4 ? ; FB 6 or FB 8 some don't said YG also they said conv radio freq's listed on the fcc log's

 

[loumaag]

how about the trunking bases FB 4 ? ; FB 6 or FB 8 some don't said YG also they said conv radio freq's listed on the fcc log's

Trunking frequencies have no place in this discussion. We just place the trunking frequencies in the TRS and that is all.

 

[902]

Anyone know the technical difference (per the FCC) between a FB2T and a MO3?

The easiest way to explain this is: the MO3 controls a mobile radio, either in-band or on a different band, which is used to communicate back to fixed-end network equipment. Think 1 Watt APCOR. They couldn't work independent of the vehicular repeater.

The FB2T is a transportable or semi-permanently mounted repeater which becomes the hub of activity wherever it's placed. An FB2T is NOT protected from other operations because it's secondary.

The MO3 is a passthrough device to access a system through a vehicle radio.

The FB2T is a stand-alone system that exists within a given area.

That's it for me, my dog's not in this one.

 

[ericcarlson]

As noted by mtindor, we have a consolidated designation. "RM" indicates a repeater and may also indicate simplex usage on the output. We do not duplicate the frequency entry when the tone is the same.

 

[zerg901]

Seems like many people have different ideas about the exact meaning of "RM".