Modoc National Forest Freqs

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rpoole23

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Just got back from a camping trip up along the borders between the Modoc National Forest and the Shasta-Trinity National Forest near McCloud, CA. Having pre-programmed a radio to listen in case of wildfire potential (appears I left just before those lightning ones started) I found one interesting nuance with regard to Modoc National Forest. It appeared for the better part of a week while I was up there that ALL routine (as well as dispatching, updates, etc.) was being done on Modoc's Admin Net and NOT the Forest Net. I didn't hear any radio traffic on the Forest Net the entire time we were up there. Dispatching for some smoke reports was done on the Admin Net as well as all weather updates and normal, routine calling.

Also when visiting Lava Beds National Monument, there was NO radio traffic on their listed frequency but apparently the law enforcement NPS rangers are utilizing the Siskiyou County Sheriff's channels for communication. While observing a traffic stop, I was able to hear the ranger, "Ranger 2", communicate with Siskiyou dispatchers regarding the t-stop. I guess this isn't unheard of as the USFS law enforcement rangers in the Lake Tahoe Basin Unit often communicate and get dispatched sometimes by El Dorado County dispatchers. Just a little different...

CalFire LMU's channel was VERY active - but they cover a larger area..
 

ko6jw_2

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This is a trend. Los Padres NF uses their admin net for a lot of routine traffic. The forest net is not exclusively, but mainly, used for fire traffic. LEOs in the LPNF can talk to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff when necessary, but most stay on LPNF frequencies. In remote areas of SB County the sheriff uses the fire department frequencies because they have better coverage. Sheriff back country patrol uses LPNF frequencies sometimes. There are also dedicated law enforcement frequencies in some national forests.
 

SCPD

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Just got back from a camping trip up along the borders between the Modoc National Forest and the Shasta-Trinity National Forest near McCloud, CA. Having pre-programmed a radio to listen in case of wildfire potential (appears I left just before those lightning ones started) I found one interesting nuance with regard to Modoc National Forest. It appeared for the better part of a week while I was up there that ALL routine (as well as dispatching, updates, etc.) was being done on Modoc's Admin Net and NOT the Forest Net. I didn't hear any radio traffic on the Forest Net the entire time we were up there. Dispatching for some smoke reports was done on the Admin Net as well as all weather updates and normal, routine calling.

Also when visiting Lava Beds National Monument, there was NO radio traffic on their listed frequency but apparently the law enforcement NPS rangers are utilizing the Siskiyou County Sheriff's channels for communication. While observing a traffic stop, I was able to hear the ranger, "Ranger 2", communicate with Siskiyou dispatchers regarding the t-stop. I guess this isn't unheard of as the USFS law enforcement rangers in the Lake Tahoe Basin Unit often communicate and get dispatched sometimes by El Dorado County dispatchers. Just a little different...

CalFire LMU's channel was VERY active - but they cover a larger area..

The Angeles put everything but fire and law enforcement on their admin net 15-20 years ago. The Sierra did the same 10 or more years ago. I have not heard of a forest that has all of its routine traffic on admin, including law enforcement and fire. The forest net must be used as a command only net. I was never enthused to have fire and LE on one net and the rest of us on another. I always thought that I needed to hear what everyone was up to. Sure, you could scan the forest net, but if admin was busy you would not hear simultaneous traffic on forest net. Most of the time I was scanning bordering national forests and the sheriff's department as well and had my priority set (a single channel) for forest net. Just after I retired the forest added an admin net, but later decided to use it so the Inyo would have a north net and a south net.

You don't hear as much radio traffic on Forest Service frequencies lately as there aren't as many employees as in years past. Locally the Forest Service is virtually non functional in the field as administrative duties that used to be done by office employees are now the responsibility of people who should be out in the field. This is due to many admin positions being eliminated. As a former co worker of mine said "what we have here is a 2 million acre ranch and all of the cowboys are back in the bunkhouse staring at computer screens." The proactive and leadership roles the Forest Service had in years past are gone and the ability to be reactive is becoming more limited. The only consistent field presence is that of law enforcement officers, but one officer in the field on each district (each officer for 5 days only) with days where they have to cover more than one ranger district is spreading people too thin.

In the southern portion of the state more law enforcement dispatching is done by federal communication centers. At night the Inyo gives hands control of the nets over to the Federal Interagency Communication Center in San Bernardino, a 24 hour center, The Angeles has a 24 hour operation as well. Nearly all of the dispatch centers outside California do not want to handle law enforcement activities. This is not entirely a function of having less of it than R5 as the internal agency bias against law enforcement is stronger in the more remote areas in the western U.S. I've had some temporary and short term assignments in Utah and Idaho. I found their attitudes as to what the role of the Forest Service should be very unrealistic and stuck in the past about 50 years.

Cal Fire's nets are busier, not only because they often cover more area, due to their providing services to county and local jurisdictions. They do this in over 45 counties as I recall. The Modoc might be the least visited National Forest in the state. If I remember my numbers correctly I had about 85% of the Modoc's visitation at just one 2 acre developed recreation site when I worked on the Inyo.

One other reason you might have heard less up there is the possible existence of a law enforcement net. Gradually, more repeaters are being added to this net, or several nets as the case might be. I don't think that one frequency pair is in use over the entirety of R5. Of course, with so little activity there might not be a need for a separate LE net.
 

SCPD

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This is a trend. Los Padres NF uses their admin net for a lot of routine traffic. The forest net is not exclusively, but mainly, used for fire traffic. LEOs in the LPNF can talk to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff when necessary, but most stay on LPNF frequencies. In remote areas of SB County the sheriff uses the fire department frequencies because they have better coverage. Sheriff backcountry patrol uses LPNF frequencies sometimes. There are also dedicated law enforcement frequencies in some national forests.

Madera County has a lot of radio dead zones in the upper elevations of the county. The Sierra comm center dispatches for them when their deputies are in those areas.
 

rpoole23

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Forest Nets

I have noticed on the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit the Forest Net is almost exclusively used for "routine" radio traffic. This is the area in which I work and interact with Forest Service employees from law enforcement to recreation and prevention units. They all use the Forest Net. The Admin Net appears to be more of a "TAC" or secondary channel. And the Law Enforcement channel is used as a "talk-around" channel as 99% of law enforcement radio traffic is done on the Forest Net.

I have heard some radio traffic on the Admin Net lately related to actual fires, maybe with the increase of the number of fires lately, but it appears that the dispatch and routine radio traffic continues on the Forest Net for Lake Tahoe. Most agencies and people (including myself) when contacting Camino for some request, use the Forest Net and all we do is pick a repeater (specific tone) to use when calling them. Just interesting how different National Forests, with their different terrains and responsibilities and unique features all have different ways of communicating in the field.
 

Norman

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A comment about the LE net. To quote from Exsmokey:

One other reason you might have heard less up there is the possible existence of a law enforcement net. Gradually, more repeaters are being added to this net, or several nets as the case might be. I don't think that one frequency pair is in use over the entirety of R5. Of course, with so little activity there might not be a need for a separate LE net.

In my Forest, the EDNF, I have not heard any traffic whatsoever in a long, long time. In the past, I was able to hear them on simplex, even talking simplex on the input frequency. I'm sure they still have LE officers, but they must not be that active?
Norm.
 

SCPD

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I have noticed on the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit the Forest Net is almost exclusively used for "routine" radio traffic. This is the area in which I work and interact with Forest Service employees from law enforcement to recreation and prevention units. They all use the Forest Net. The Admin Net appears to be more of a "TAC" or secondary channel. And the Law Enforcement channel is used as a "talk-around" channel as 99% of law enforcement radio traffic is done on the Forest Net.

I have heard some radio traffic on the Admin Net lately related to actual fires, maybe with the increase of the number of fires lately, but it appears that the dispatch and routine radio traffic continues on the Forest Net for Lake Tahoe. Most agencies and people (including myself) when contacting Camino for some request, use the Forest Net and all we do is pick a repeater (specific tone) to use when calling them. Just interesting how different National Forests, with their different terrains and responsibilities and unique features all have different ways of communicating in the field.

When forests began installing a second net and called it admin it was used as a secondary repeater net that was often used as a large incident command net, for units to switch over to when a conversation would involve an extended amount of time or when forest net was tied up for fires and units from all the other functions needed a net free of fire traffic. After a while some forests separated fire and law enforcement traffic from that of all the other functions, who were moved to admin net. Now it tends to be a mixed bag. National Forests are relatively autonomous and Forest Supervisors are at about the level colonels are in the military. Sometimes this leads to interesting differences between forests. Bigger differences exist when comparing the 9 regions in the agency. I worked in 3 regions and the differences between the 3 were interesting.

Up to about 3-4 years ago each region developed their own designs for apparatus and there weren't nationwide standards for building the various engine types, such the ubiquitous Type III engine in California. This proved to be inefficient and expensive. Some contractors built engines from more than one region with parts and tooling varying. The Washington Office finally stepped in and made a top down decision to standardize one design per engine type. This also helps when people transfer from one region to another and don't need to adapt to another version of the same type engine.

The Incident Command System was developed in California and Region 5 of the USFS started implementing it in 1981 or 1982. A due date for all Forest Service regions to start using it was set for the 1986 fire season or January 1st, I don't recall which. Most regions implemented ICS ahead of the due date. The Northern Region, Region 1 (northern Idaho, Montana and North Dakota) refused to implement it until the due date. The rumor was they said they would not implement something from California until forced.

Radio procedures can vary as well, with some forests in Region 1 and Region 4 (the Intermountain Region of southern Idaho, Utah, Nevada and the Bridger Teton National Forest in Wyoming) having people use their last names as identifiers. Yes, some forests don't use standard radio identifiers such as Chief, Division, Battalion, and functional names such as Recreation, Resources, Wilderness etc. Instead they all use last names. Can you imagine responding to a mutual aid incident from, for example, the Plumas National Forest, to a fire in the SRA and making this call, "Cal Fire Battalion 2115, Forest Service Smith on your local net Tone 7." Everyone would be scratching their heads wondering who Smith is, an FMO, a Batt Chief, or ?. But that is what they do and they don't want to change. They are required to designate apparatus with a nationwide standard, but individuals, fire and other functions, use their last names. I remember working in R4 when the Toiyabe NF stared requiring the use of designators instead of their last names. When the thi direction came down you would think everyone had been hit with a 2 x 4, they were emotionally attached to using their last names. From day 1 on that forest I used a number after asking for a identifier list. They hunted around and found one, but I was told to use my last name, which I refused to do.

The Forest Service tries to allow Regions and National Forests to make their own decisions and don't want to prescribe how to do everything. This is mixed bag, sometimes good and sometimes bad.
 
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Norman

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I did hear a xmsn on that new LE freq yesterday, but too short to ID. I also see in the RR DB that there is a new LE freq listed for the Stan NF with a question mark, highlighted in green. Monitoring both.
Norm.
 

kma371

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I did hear a xmsn on that new LE freq yesterday, but too short to ID. I also see in the RR DB that there is a new LE freq listed for the Stan NF with a question mark, highlighted in green. Monitoring both.
Norm.

Yeah the Stan freq is confirmed them, but I haven't confirmed the use. There was quite a bit of traffic on it regarding an injured hiker. I went ahead and plugged it into the DB.
 

Norman

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I used to hear the Stan NF on the old freq, along with the Mendocino I think it was.
Things might pick up at pot harvest time.
Norm.
 

Norman

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Someone keyed up the EDNF LE freq late this am, but no audio/ID.
This is the only activity I've heard all week so far.
Norm.
 
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