Monroe/Ontario P25 System

[rgemerson]

Has anyone had any success using either the Uniden 996P2 or 325P2 on this system? I have a lot of trouble with decoding due to the simulcast and am wondering if anyone has found settings that work well before I spend big bucks on an SDS scanner.

Thanks in advance!

 

[DaveNF2G]

The SDS line are reported to be superior performers on simulcast, so that investment might be just what you need.

 

[rgemerson]

Hi Dave,

Yes the SDS is designed to work with a simulcast system due to the incorporation of Software Designed Radio technology that does not exist in other scanners. I am hoping I can avoid (or delay) purchasing an SDS because of the cost and because I recently purchased the 996P2. I am hoping someone has had luck using scanner settings to filter out some of those competing simulcast signals on a non-SDS scanner...

 

[qman62]

I live in Onondaga County which I believe has a similar system to yours, and I own a 996P2, 325P2, and the SDS100. I think the only real adjustment the 996/325 have is the P25 Threshold setting. Also keep in mind physical location, and antenna type can help as well.

I wanted my 996 on my nightstand next to my bed, and played around with different antenna hook ups until I finally found one that works pretty good - an old telescoping HT antenna I bought at a hamfest. Not saying it's perfect - the SDS100 definitely out performs it - but I'm happy enough with how it compares to the SDS.

Play around with the threshold setting, location, and antenna types/lengths and you might find a combination that works reasonably well. The 996 is a great scanner, but not an end all solution for LSM systems.

 

[k2hz]

The Harris WCQPSK emission used on the Monroe Ontario system gives normal scanners even more problems than Motorola LSM. There is no magic setting to correct the problem although the P25 threshold setting may help under certain circumstances. But, it may need constant tweaking as signal reflection conditions change.

But, before you get a SDS100 be aware it has severe desense and intermod problems and is very poor as a general scanner although it does an outstanding job with receiving the local Monroe/Ontario P25 cell. I use a 436HP for everything else which is an excellent scanner except for P25 simulcast. I formerly had a TRX-1 and tried all sorts of tweaks and it would be almost decent one day and bad the next. The person I sold the TRX-1 to had it working decently with the Genesee County system after finding a magic combination of antenna type and location and everything was well until winter and reflection patterns changed and it went to almost useless.

The 436 and the TRX-1 both work much better, although not perfect, with the CNYICC Motorola system than they do with Harris systems.

The bottom line is that normal scanners with analog based demodulator circuits can not properly handle P25 simulcast. Unfortunately, the present Uniden implementation of SDR technology is buggy although they continue to make firmware changes that have mitigated some of the worst problems. The Unication pagers are the only monitoring devices that are really effective for P25 simulcast systems at this time.

 

[slicerwizard]

Yes the SDS is designed to work with a simulcast system due to the incorporation of Software Designed Radio

Software DEFINED Radio.

 

[sallen07]

But, before you get a SDS100 be aware it has severe desense and intermod problems and is very poor as a general scanner although it does an outstanding job with receiving the local Monroe/Ontario P25 cell.

The SDS100 does great on the Monroe system. (I'm sure the SDS200 will also, but I do not have one.)

I had a BCD436HP that would also do "OK" on the system, if I made sure it was in a 'sweet spot' on my desk. The SDS100 does great even moving around the house or neighborhood. I've also heard that it does fine in a vehicle, but since that's illegal in NY State I wouldn't know first-hand. I have a BCD996P2 and a BDC352P2 and have had little to no luck with either of them on the system. Ditto with a Pro-668.

The bottom line is that normal scanners with analog based demodulator circuits can not properly handle P25 simulcast. Unfortunately, the present Uniden implementation of SDR technology is buggy although they continue to make firmware changes that have mitigated some of the worst problems. The Unication pagers are the only monitoring devices that are really effective for P25 simulcast systems at this time.

My experience with the SDS100 seems to be better than k2hz's. But whatever. I've thought about getting a Unication, and may yet do so.

Another viable alternative is OP25. For about $200 you can build a Raspberry Pi based OP25 scanner like this:

https://forums.radioreference.com/t...-screen-for-raspberry-pi.384331/#post-3082744

Which does great on the Monroe system. Let me know if you'd like more details.

 

[k2hz]

I can confirm that OP25 works great for decode on Monroe. I ran it for a few years before I got the TRX-1. The only problem with OP25 is the SDR dongles have poor performance in a high RF environment so I could only monitor the nearest site. I don't how OP25 it works with the AirSpy SDRs but their better dynamic range should help mitigate the overload problem common to most other SDRs. AirSpy seems to need a high performance PC so it may not work Pi.

The SDS100 is better with the latest firmware, but, side by side with the 436, it can't hear stuff that is fine on the 436. One example is the Kodak system on 864. The 436 gets perfect reception on my desk with the stock antenna and the SDS100 can not even detect the CC signal, probably due to desense from the Sprint cell system on 866.

It is a desense problem with the SDS100. The sensitivity is outstanding on a bench check with a signal generator but it goes deaf on an antenna in my location near Pinnacle Hill with all the FM and TV signals and it is bad with intermod on 150 and 450. Before the latest firmware updates it could only hear the local NOAA WX channel and even that was sometimes noised up with intermod. With the new firmware, it is solid on the local and usable with some occasional noise and dropouts on the next 2 strongest channels. This is compared to the 436 that gets solid reception on 4 WX channels and has slight background noisy but stable on one other when connect to the same antenna.

I do have FM and TV traps in the antenna line which keeps the 436 happy but the SDS100 can't cope with the strong in-band signals from Cobbs Hill and Pinnacle Hill so even specific band-pass filters don't help.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Hmm. Why did Kodak move out of the public safety allocation into the ESMR band?

 

[ThePagerGeek]

They moved? Or never left where they were...

 

[k2hz]

As TPG said, Kodak has stayed where they always were. Not much traffic left on the system with the downsizing but Security and Fire are still on there digital and the power plant crews (now outsourced) are still on there analog.

 

[rgemerson]

Thank you everyone for the replies. Even the one that corrected my typo (lol). You guys have given me some good options to consider.

 

[DaveNF2G]

As TPG said, Kodak has stayed where they always were. Not much traffic left on the system with the downsizing but Security and Fire are still on there digital and the power plant crews (now outsourced) are still on there analog.

When I scoped out the Kodak system back in the 1980s or 90s when it went on the air, they were on 851-853 MHz.

 

[GTR8000]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Dave is 100% correct. The application history for WNMD243 shows very clearly that they were indeed on 851-853 MHz prior to 2010.

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applFreqSum.jsp?applID=5130409

 

[ThePagerGeek]

Seems like they got rebanded as non-public safety.

 

[GTR8000]

That's exactly what happened, they were kicked out of the newly reconfigured NPSPAC 851-854 spectrum and moved up to the ESMR band. Not surprising given they were operating under a YO license, which was converted to YJ as part of the move.

 

[Theo]

Dave is correct. I actually was on the design committee for the Kodak FD back in the 80's.

 

[w2csx]

I use BCD325P2 and receive very well. Threshold set at 6.

 

[rgemerson]

I will give this a try, I was using 8. Thanks!